Comments on: Wildlife Officers Gone Bad? http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wildlife-officers-gone-bad Black Bear Blog - The Politics of Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors. Protecting our American Heritage. Fri, 25 May 2012 06:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: jes http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4571 jes Thu, 26 Aug 2010 23:30:33 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4571 I learned a hard lesson about law enforcement officers about 3-4 years ago. Used to be I thought they were who you went to help fight against the bad guys, but I found out there are bad lemons in almost every basket, these days.... I went to see what a helicopter was doing circling my acreage about 4 in the morning, thinking it was a police helicopter, but wondering what they were doing over the back corner of my property...I was going to be running late for work unless I found out and let my neighbors know if there was any danger thereabouts..So I drove down the graded road that bordered my property and saw an abandoned deputy sheriff's car parked in the road, and looking down the road, quite a few sheriff's cars parked together. So I drove down to find out what was happening...That was a bad move on my part, since those boys were stirred up like a hornet's nest knocked down from the tree...They were scared and eager to hurt someone, and it happened to be me... So, my advice is from now on, steer clear of those boys when they are all bunched together like bees on a nest...they will hurt you before they know what they are doing...They pounced on me from behind when I went to find out why one of them was getting in my truck without asking, and before I knew it they had three of them on my bad back, twisting my arm out of the socket like they wanted to kill me for no reason....I spent the night in jail and another day as well because I trusted a friend to get me out, instead of calling a lawyer to do the job proper. The bondsman my friend called decided I didn't require enough bond to be worth his while, and left me still in the caboose...Living and learning is the only way to learn a lesson that sticks, I suppose.... They dropped all charges, but hiring a lawyer is a costly affair, and hiring him again to press charges against the police is even costlier...and after reading the police report, I found that all the police there either said they didn't see what happened, or just outright lied about what they did see......One hand washing the other, and their own kind sticking up for each other, no matter how many lies they told. I was tempted to spend the money and press the charges just to see if they lied on the witness stand as well, but I'm sure they would have, although it would have been nice to see them squirm under oath..... I later found out that the lieutenant who was in charge was new to the post, and hope he has been replaced as I would hate to see him do the same thing to a judge or lawyer who happened to chance upon them the same way.......sure I would! ...... I learned a hard lesson about law enforcement officers about 3-4 years ago. Used to be I thought they were who you went to help fight against the bad guys, but I found out there are bad lemons in almost every basket, these days….
I went to see what a helicopter was doing circling my acreage about 4 in the morning, thinking it was a police helicopter, but wondering what they were doing over the back corner of my property…I was going to be running late for work unless I found out and let my neighbors know if there was any danger thereabouts..So I drove down the graded road that bordered my property and saw an abandoned deputy sheriff’s car parked in the road, and looking down the road, quite a few sheriff’s cars parked together. So I drove down to find out what was happening…That was a bad move on my part, since those boys were stirred up like a hornet’s nest knocked down from the tree…They were scared and eager to hurt someone, and it happened to be me…

So, my advice is from now on, steer clear of those boys when they are all bunched together like bees on a nest…they will hurt you before they know what they are doing…They pounced on me from behind when I went to find out why one of them was getting in my truck without asking, and before I knew it they had three of them on my bad back, twisting my arm out of the socket like they wanted to kill me for no reason….I spent the night in jail and another day as well because I trusted a friend to get me out, instead of calling a lawyer to do the job proper. The bondsman my friend called decided I didn’t require enough bond to be worth his while, and left me still in the caboose…Living and learning is the only way to learn a lesson that sticks, I suppose….

They dropped all charges, but hiring a lawyer is a costly affair, and hiring him again to press charges against the police is even costlier…and after reading the police report, I found that all the police there either said they didn’t see what happened, or just outright lied about what they did see……One hand washing the other, and their own kind sticking up for each other, no matter how many lies they told. I was tempted to spend the money and press the charges just to see if they lied on the witness stand as well, but I’m sure they would have, although it would have been nice to see them squirm under oath…..

I later found out that the lieutenant who was in charge was new to the post, and hope he has been replaced as I would hate to see him do the same thing to a judge or lawyer who happened to chance upon them the same way…….sure I would! ……

]]> By: Barry http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4570 Barry Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:21:36 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4570 Thanks Tom Thanks Tom

]]> By: Tom Remington http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4569 Tom Remington Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:16:06 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4569 I will do that as soon as I hear back from Dennis again that this is what he is willing to do as well. I will do that as soon as I hear back from Dennis again that this is what he is willing to do as well.

]]> By: Barry http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4568 Barry Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:14:01 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4568 Dennis I would love the details of your situation. Tom- if at all possible, could you forward my email addy to him. Dennis

I would love the details of your situation.

Tom- if at all possible, could you forward my email addy to him.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4567 Dennis Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:17:55 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4567 I cannot give you details of my unbelievable run in with Idaho Fish and game. It has been a three year ordeal that will be settled soon. I would like for you to write me. Its is under a federal lawsuit at this time. I cannot give you details of my unbelievable run in with Idaho Fish and game. It has been a three year ordeal that will be settled soon. I would like for you to write me. Its is under a federal lawsuit at this time.

]]> By: Norm http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4565 Norm Thu, 03 May 2007 22:01:07 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4565 Speaking from being involved in law enforcement in the past, it is unfortunate that law enforcement as a whole is viewed as arrogant and viewed upon in a negative light due to the ones that do represent those features. It is easy in law enforcement to let the "power" go to your head. Although as law enforcement officers, we need to realize we work for the "community", that's you and I. A disgrace those pictures are. Don't label all game officials in this category with them however. Give them a chance to prove themselves one way or the other. Speaking from being involved in law enforcement in the past, it is unfortunate that law enforcement as a whole is viewed as arrogant and viewed upon in a negative light due to the ones that do represent those features. It is easy in law enforcement to let the “power” go to your head. Although as law enforcement officers, we need to realize we work for the “community”, that’s you and I.

A disgrace those pictures are. Don’t label all game officials in this category with them however. Give them a chance to prove themselves one way or the other.

]]> By: Brian http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4564 Brian Thu, 03 May 2007 13:25:23 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4564 Law enforcement, all law enforcement, for the past couple of decades, have been trained to pursue and adversarial relationship with the people on the street. It is no accident their methods are pompous, their demeanor is swaggering and arrogant. They are not trusted. They are deeply disliked. It is no accident. They earned it. If they want that to change, THEY, must EARN the respect. Respect cannot be demanded. Law enforcement, all law enforcement, for the past couple of decades, have been trained to pursue and adversarial relationship with the people on the street.

It is no accident their methods are pompous, their demeanor is swaggering and arrogant.

They are not trusted. They are deeply disliked. It is no accident. They earned it.

If they want that to change, THEY, must EARN the respect. Respect cannot be demanded.

]]> By: Erik http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4563 Erik Thu, 03 May 2007 03:07:47 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4563 Glenn: Idaho is an open range state, which means if livestock escape and a driver hits and kills one, the driver owes the rancher money for the loss of that livestock. I heard a gentleman discuss just such an incident at lunch today after he hit and killed a loose horse. I understand that Rex was laid up following back surgery or something similar and had someone watching his elk. The F&G contacted him, and based on the photos, he was obviously present for the slaughter of his livestock. Imagine the frustration Rex must of felt as he was trying to lure his elk back onto his property and the F&G shooting his prized animals right in front of him. The AR-15 in the photo is most likely a .223, which shoots a 65-grain bullet. When I hunt elk with a 30.06, I use a 180-grain bullet. You could down an elk with a .223, but I doubt you would get a clean kill. Sad! Glenn:

Idaho is an open range state, which means if livestock escape and a driver hits and kills one, the driver owes the rancher money for the loss of that livestock. I heard a gentleman discuss just such an incident at lunch today after he hit and killed a loose horse.

I understand that Rex was laid up following back surgery or something similar and had someone watching his elk. The F&G contacted him, and based on the photos, he was obviously present for the slaughter of his livestock. Imagine the frustration Rex must of felt as he was trying to lure his elk back onto his property and the F&G shooting his prized animals right in front of him.

The AR-15 in the photo is most likely a .223, which shoots a 65-grain bullet. When I hunt elk with a 30.06, I use a 180-grain bullet. You could down an elk with a .223, but I doubt you would get a clean kill. Sad!

]]> By: Tom Remington http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4562 Tom Remington Thu, 03 May 2007 02:33:54 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4562 Thanks Glenn for your comments. There is much more to this story than one can get from this one. Many of Rex Rammell's elk were slaughtered just before they reentered the pen. They had grain in their mouths. Not sure if the AR was a .223 It is believed it was. Thanks Glenn for your comments. There is much more to this story than one can get from this one. Many of Rex Rammell’s elk were slaughtered just before they reentered the pen. They had grain in their mouths.

Not sure if the AR was a .223 It is believed it was.

]]> By: Glenn http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2007/05/01/wildlife-officers-gone-bad/#comment-4561 Glenn Thu, 03 May 2007 02:04:55 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=2049#comment-4561 Here's a bit of a different take on this whole elk/private property issue. First let me say that as a land owner and the owner of livestock you have an obligation to keep them on your property and in a pen. Second if you can not do so because you are "laid up" you have an obligation to hire it done or call on your friends or whatever. Third if you can not or will not keep your livestock in a pen and the state feels that they are a danger to the public ie hitting one with a car or by spreading disease or messing up the purity of the wild life the state has an obligation to the public to rid the open ranges of such critters. This while may be to the detrement of the land owner is for the good of the public. Granted we all have rights but in this case the owner of the elk was unable or unaware that they were on the loose. I only question if the state contacted the owner or tried to before they were shot. I don't know the full story but if the owner did not do everything and I mean EVERYTHING reasonably in his power to keep them penned up or get them rounded back up then shame on him. My second question is: Is that a .223 the officer is carrying. If so shame on him. This is an elk we are talking about and a .223 is not the best choice for a humane kill. Dragging the elk behind the truck may give a bad impression but how many critters were these guys charged to dispose of. An elk is a big critter and if you've got many I'd drag them with a truck too. No different than we do with a dead bovine. As far as game officer are concerned some are good some are bad just the same as regular law enforcement. Their life is dealing with people who have made bad choices and more often than not lie through their teeth when they are caught. Must the be suspicious of everyone. To be effective they probably do. Give'm a break, don't break the law and treat them with respect and you will get along with them much better. Remember they are enforcement officers, not baby sitters, and hopefully not fools........so don't fool with them. A little common sense and a little common courtesy goes a long ways with most of them. Here’s a bit of a different take on this whole elk/private property issue. First let me say that as a land owner and the owner of livestock you have an obligation to keep them on your property and in a pen. Second if you can not do so because you are “laid up” you have an obligation to hire it done or call on your friends or whatever. Third if you can not or will not keep your livestock in a pen and the state feels that they are a danger to the public ie hitting one with a car or by spreading disease or messing up the purity of the wild life the state has an obligation to the public to rid the open ranges of such critters. This while may be to the detrement of the land owner is for the good of the public. Granted we all have rights but in this case the owner of the elk was unable or unaware that they were on the loose. I only question if the state contacted the owner or tried to before they were shot. I don’t know the full story but if the owner did not do everything and I mean EVERYTHING reasonably in his power to keep them penned up or get them rounded back up then shame on him.

My second question is: Is that a .223 the officer is carrying. If so shame on him. This is an elk we are talking about and a .223 is not the best choice for a humane kill.

Dragging the elk behind the truck may give a bad impression but how many critters were these guys charged to dispose of. An elk is a big critter and if you’ve got many I’d drag them with a truck too. No different than we do with a dead bovine.

As far as game officer are concerned some are good some are bad just the same as regular law enforcement. Their life is dealing with people who have made bad choices and more often than not lie through their teeth when they are caught. Must the be suspicious of everyone. To be effective they probably do. Give’m a break, don’t break the law and treat them with respect and you will get along with them much better. Remember they are enforcement officers, not baby sitters, and hopefully not fools……..so don’t fool with them. A little common sense and a little common courtesy goes a long ways with most of them.

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