Comments on: Should Man Who Killed Bear To Protect Kid Been Fined?

By: Dana Bronsted

Dana Bronsted — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 03:29:43 +0000

Gosh…a fine in this case is just wrong..i am a female hunter and have done a lot of camping in bear country. One writer is correct in saying that you never know what the last camper dumped out behind your site. Bear are not usually this bold. One point i want to make is this: Who puts the food away as they make the dinner? Everyone i know puts everything away after dinner. And it sounds like the bear would have come in anyway…if the cooler was in a trunk etc the bear would have still smelled it and came in for the marshmellos on the sticks..lol. I say the fine is silly.
And killin a bear with a stick? Wow! God was with him.
Dana

By: Maven

Maven — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:43:53 +0000

I would certainly hope that in the face of such a tragedy that the Parks Service would have the good taste, compassion, and human decency to wave the fine/charges. However, the facts of the case would still stand. I’m sure it would come out in the investigation as a contributing factor.
Judging by the political environment, the dad would be lucky not to get charges of negligence contributing to wrongful death levied against him – as has been done in child/gun, child/car, child/pool, and child/dog fatalities in the news in recent years.
(No, I do not support setting these charges on obvious accidents -except in extreme cases of truly horrendous neglect- but glory-hound DA’s seem to relish cases like this. Yes it’s crazy, but it does keep showing up in the news.)
As to who makes the decision as to levy charges? I imagine it starts with the investigating officer and continues to be reviewed up the chain of command. Honestly, I don’t know.

By: Tom Remington

Tom Remington — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 19:45:38 +0000

Maven, Can I play a little “devil’s advocate” for a moment? Thanks, LOL!

Let’s suppose for a minute. According to your reasoning (again I’m playing the DA here) a rule infraction was broken pertaining to the safe handling of camp food and therefore the fine of $75 was necessary.

Supposing the exact same scenario existed only this time the young boy who took after the bear with a shovel, was attacked and seriously injured or perhaps even killed.

Do you think the fine should still be levied against the Dad?

If not where is the line drawn and who gets to decide?

BTW, Thanks to everyone for chiming in on this debate. It may not be the biggest news issue effecting us all today but I think it is important for several reasons.

By: Paul Kaiser

Paul Kaiser — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:34:54 +0000

In response to Mike Goad,
A few years ago I was on a Colorado DOW “youth hunt” with my son, my daughter and a person from the program, and a guide from the ranch we where on (one of the most prominant, “hign dollar” ranches for wildlife). The ranch guide told my son to shoot the last elk in line following the second to the last cow. He assumed it was another cow, he told my son to take it if he had a shot, he told him he had a shot and the giude told him to shoot. My son did. It was a spike bull over the minimum antler length, (my son only had a antler-less youth tag). We where told we would have to call the DOW’s local CO and report the accidental kill. So we did, the ranch manager and guide were sure the DOW would take the report and just go ahead and let us keep the animal. Instead they took the animal, gave the ranch hand a fine, gave the guide a fine and gave my son a fine and points off. I thought it was a very harsh lesson and told the CO there just teaching people to not report accidents. “Some lesson for all these kids involved”. The DOW did stay the points, the fine and left his licnse intacked so he could still go out and try for another “legal” elk. The CO asked my son why he shot an illegal animal he responded “I knew it had horns, I only shot because the guide told him too!” Well lesson learned! And my son and daughter were succcessful the next day with there first elk.
I’m not upset I just think they could of handled it better especially in from of young hunters.

By: Maven

Maven — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:58:50 +0000

Actually one of the accounts I read (off Yahoo, before it was posted here in fact) stated the bear was in the act of dragging off their cooler full of food when the man started shouting to drive it off and kid grabbed the shovel and charged the bear. That tells me the cooler was accessible, away from them and not stowed properly, and the kid needs to be taught basic survival. It was early summer, she could easily have had cubs and really gotten riled. Dad was phenomenally lucky with that throw.
The fine was for ~failing to follow safe procedures and not stowing the food~ not for killing the bear.
Never has anyone here, or that I’ve read reported by the media, implied he was wrong in defending his son. Just that it was his failure to follow safety rules that contributed to, if not created, the problem in the first place. As I stated above, he could have been heavily fined for killing the bear, he was not.
As to the bear’s scavenging being a sign of ill health? Bears are supreme opportunists and somewhere it had learned that human camps mean easy food. Raccoons know the same tricks without being ill.
The conclusion could be drawn that this campground has a history of lax rule following and this bear stepped up to the free buffet as it might to backyard bird feeders or trashcans. Hopefully this and the tragic Utah incident will wake people up. The State and Ntnl. parks ain’t the set of Grizzly Addams or Gentle Ben folks, but most people reading here know that. It’s the armchair explorer suburbanites we wind up reading about getting rescued from the sides of mountains – or dying.
I also stand by my comparison to the car fire analogy. Sure we all make mistakes. However it’s not safe to flaunt the laws of nature. In the woods, mistakes are often be paid for with life.
I’d rather follow proceedure and not risk my life or the lives of those around me.
The point being -If a broken rule leads to endangerment, then a fine should be levied. Even if it inadvertently makes a “hero” of the rule breaker.
He broke the rules and contributed to a potentially lethal situation, he gets to pay what I think is a pittance of a fine.
My guess is that he knows he got off lightly. Heck, he would have payed more for failure to buckle up in the car.

I fervently hope someone might learn from this mess and not lose another kid.

By: Mike Goad

Mike Goad — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:14:02 +0000

As someone else said, the story doesn’t go into details on how the food was stored. All it mentions is that the bear showed up after dinner was served and that the family was roasting marshmallows.

So far as killing the bear with a stick of firewood, it appears that is possible. The hunger that drove it to go into areas frequented by people may have already weakened it.

So far as unusual animal killings and fines, a co-worker of mine took his 7 or 8 year old son deer hunting last year and the son got 3 deer – with 1 shot! It sounds implausible, but the deer were all in line with the shot and the bullet went completely through the first two. A game warden declined to fine the boy, but he looked at the father and said, “If you had shot them, you would have been fined.”

By: Othmar Vohringer

Othmar Vohringer — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 02:14:06 +0000

So the man did not make the camp bear save. Does that mean he has no right to save his kids life? Of course he does! As for comparing the incident to a car fire, itâ€™s silly, even if someone does make a mistake, and we all make mistakes donâ€™t we, it does not mean we have not the right to intervene by any means possible to rescue someoneâ€™s life. In fact we have a duty to intervene, especially so if we created the dangerous situation. The fine should have been waved. I think the guy learned his lesson the hard way, that is punishment enough.

Can a bear be killed with firewood? Yes it can if hit on the right spot, but itâ€™s a lucky hit.

-Othmar Vohringer-

By: Paul Kaiser

Paul Kaiser — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:53 +0000

I think the fine is a joke. That’s crap. I have camped all over in many types of camping situations and in a public place you might be doing everything right with your campsite but what you don’t know is how well the people before you took care of the campsite, they may have dumped out there bacon grease right where you put up your tent….go figure. Isn’t it our right to defend our family above all else?

By: Darrell

Darrell — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:03:24 +0000

I wouldn’t complain about the fine even though the article doesn’t indicate what level of negligience existed. This guy was extremely lucky and a $75 fine is better than facing SERIOUS charges OR burying your kid.

I can’t imagine killing a 300lb bear with a stick of firewood. Seems implausible, but I wasn’t there.

I’d just try to learn from the experience:

1) Keep a close eye on your kids when in bear country
2) Take care of your food (no way for me to know if he did or not)
3) Teach your kids not to chase bears! (that is a GUTSY kid that doesn’t appreciate ‘wild’ animals)
4) Life isn’t always ‘fair’

By: Kristine Shreve

Kristine Shreve — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:54:01 +0000

Don’t know about killing the bear with firewood. Obviously it’s possible to do, but I’d have to guess he got lucky as well.

As for the fine, it is a known fact that food lying around will attract animals. It’s a basic law of safe camping that you secure your food. I’d have to agree with Phillip, if the food hadn’t been there, the whole thing might not have happened.