Obama I Guess Thinks Second Amendment For Hunters

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According to SignOnSanDiego, Barack Obama told an audience in Boise, Idaho that he wasn’t a Muslim, that he has spent the last 20 years praising Jesus and that he has no plans to take guns away from the hunters, like the many that are in Illinois.

â€œAnd then there are people who say, ‘Well, he doesn’t believe in the Second Amendment,’ even though I come from a state â€“ we’ve got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.â€

This is where those who don’t really believe in the Second Amendment make the mistake of trying to convince people that the Second Amendment is about hunting. Sorry! It’s about the right to keep and bear arms.

Obama didn’t mention that he does support gun control and has a record of voting for it in the Illinois Senate. He backed limiting handgun purchases to one a month, but he made no attempts to ban them. Today, he stands by his support for controls while trying to reassure hunters that he has no interest in interfering with their access to firearms.

The red flag that goes up with this, and it’s not just relegated to the democrats, that it’s easy to say you support the Second Amendment or that you have no intention to take guns away from people, but these politicians fully support gun control whether you want to call it reasonable or not.

Don’t get suckered into the rhetoric these guys spew forth in an attempt to convince voters they support the right to keep and bear arms. Look at the voting records. He has voted for gun control and is showing his true colors by trying to reassure hunters he won’t take their guns.

What about the other few million gun owners in America?

Tom Remington

http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

Tom, It’s probably no surprise that this post brings me out of the woodwork. Though I don’t agree with Obama on all of his positions, having grown up in rural South Dakota and also having lived in inner city Chicago, I understand where he’s coming from. Here’s a more detailed quote from the older interview in the Baltimore Sun:

“We should be able to combine respect for those traditions with our concern for kids who are being shot down. This is a classic example of us just applying some common sense, just being reasonable, right? And reasonable would say that lawful gun owners â€“ I respect the Second Amendment. I think lawful gun owners should be able to hunt, be sportsmen, protect their families.

I understand that’s not an “NRA acceptable” position and I’m well aware which way you lean politically, but I also think it’s wrong to insinuate that he’s somehow a Manchurian candidate, drop innuendos about his faith, or say that the guy doesn’t have a deep, abiding, respect for the Constitution. His colleagues and students at The University of Chicago have said that he was one of the best Constitutional Law teachers they have ever had. On the side of rural issues, he is head and shoulders above every candidate out there, IMHO
Tom Remington

I’m speaking strictly of Second Amendment issues. You are the one bringing into the discussion “the Constitution”. The part(s) of this discussion which will never change is the acceptance of the fact that people, evidently you, believe that “reasonable” gun control is in the best interest of all.

As I stated earlier, it is easier for anyone to say the believe in the Second Amendment, First Amendment or any of them. When you choose to live a progressive lifestyle, this is the approach taken to justify changing the Constitution in order to fit that lifestyle.

This is individual choice and I choose not to go down that road because of the dangers I see within out society.

Perhaps you also don’t know that I could care less what political pedigree a person is. When they begin restricting and prohibiting citizens from exercising their rights guaranteed under the Constitution, I’ll speak up.

This day it happened to be Barack Obama. John McCain certainly doesn’t have a stellar performance when it comes to Second Amendment issues yet he too says he believes in and supports the Second Amendment.

My message to the readers is, this is campaign season. Everyone of the candidates will spin, twist, lie, cheat, steal and sell their souls to the devil for one stinking vote.
Tom Remington

Thanks, Rob! Well, stated.
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

@Tom – I bring the entire Constitution, of which the Second Amendment is part, because I think if we’re going to talk about how Obama will preserve and protect the Second Amendment rights of Americans; we have to do so in the context of the larger document to which it is a part. Once again, I’m not necessarily saying I agree with his position in this instance, I do however think that Obama’s open to influence and discussion around the topic and realizes that “Democrats don’t have a monopoly on wisdom” – to use his quote.

@Rob – I couldn’t agree with you more and that is how I was brought up to understand the Second Amendment as well, but let me share a story to illustrate how perceptions change based on geography and circumstance:

When I was in my mid-twenties I lived on the west side of Chicago, in a neighborhood that was gentrifying but was livable on a block-by-block basis. This was in the height of the Michael Jordan era of the Chicago Bulls and I happened to be home one night when the Bulls won the Championship. The city would go kind of nuts when this happened, and all of a sudden, out of the mix of honking horns, and the shouted exclamations of party participants in my building and on the block, I hear the sound of (fully) automatic weapon and pistol fire being shot into the air – somewhere within a block or two of my home.

Now I had my two shotguns in the closet (one of which I promptly broke and chambered a couple of shells for just-in-case) but it was that moment I realized why some live in fear of guns – for someone who grows up in an urban environment, gunfire is simply sound that cuts through the night and signifies sudden and unexpected death. It is the sound which represents powerlessness and and also an acknowlegement that lawlessness is ever-present and that police can or will only do so much to stop it. It’s all well and good to say that “guns don’t kill people – people kill people” but it’s another to realize that you’re sitting at home with a shotgun while someone nearby has a submachine gun and
is capable of terrorizing you (and your family, which I didn’t have at the time) at any moment.

It’s also important to understand that urban gun dealers, in many cases, use the shroud of that Second Amendment to cower law enforment to conduct illegitimate business. It’s hard to understand that unless you make a trip one day to buy shells for your shotgun and, while the transaction is being completed, watch a man who fits all the stereotypes of an urban gangster emerge from a back room with a heavy duffel bag. A few years later, my girlfriend was an Illinois State Trooper and she and I had several, very enlightening, discussions with her on that very subject.

Once again, my intention is not to defend those who would take away our right to bear arms. It is important, though, to understand that if we are going to be responsible advocates of that right, we need to frame our defense of those rights in a way that accepts and acknowleges the truths of millions of Americans who have been raised to live and/or currently live in fear of guns (concealed and fully automatic) and those who wield them.

I probably should have written this as a blog post of my own, Tom, so I’m sorry to take up so much of your page. Thanks, at least, for letting me join in the disucssion – though I know on these pages I’m the minority.
Tom Remington

I have two responses to the first part of your post that was addressed to me. I fail to see why it is necessary to bring to the discussion the entire Constitution when our rights are guaranteed with separate amendments. Surely you can’t think that everyone looks at every amendment the same way, particularly the Second.

The second response is about your comment: “I do however think that Obamaâ€™s open to influence and discussion around the topic…”

If Mr. Obama is open to influence concerning the Second Amendment, I honestly believe the man should not be President of the United States nor that he should be holding the office of a U.S. Senator. Is he that much not grounded in his positions?

Also, I understand you story and we hear of this many times but I’m not sure that I understand the point you are trying to make. I think you are saying that because people, (I assume you really know not from whom the “submachine gun” fire came from) have those guns and that you felt the need to get out your own gun for protection, that this is grounds for “reasonable gun control”?

This is where most gun advocates will disagree. Making laws to remove guns or limit guns only places those limits on lawful citizens – the same lawful citizens who feel the need to be able to defend themselves. Those in possession of “submachine guns” don’t give a rats end about anyone’s gun laws. If they did, they wouldn’t have had those “submachine guns” in the first place.

The debate on gun issues is long, deep and varied of which was really not my intent when I posted this blog. As I have done even with other candidates, is to inform readers not to believe everything they are hearing.

I will repeat it again. This is an election year. All candidate know from history that nobody has ever been elected to public office by running on the grounds that they want to disarm the people.

They also know that they can win more votes if they can convince the voters they “believe” in the Second Amendment. It is the responsibility of the voter to know what that means. Unfortunately, they will not take the steps to find out but rather rely on the media to keep them informed and I think most of us will agree how dangerous that is.

Mitt Romney, as much as I like the man and respect him, does not have a very good Second Amendment record and he too claims to support the right of the people to bear arms. Of all the candidates left in this race, the only two whom I think come the closest to FULLY supporting the Second Amendment are Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee.

You are welcomed to participate in discussions and frankly I don’t care how long they are as long of course as they stay on task.

Thanks
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

@Tom – You’re right in that I’m probably straying from the topic of this original post. Let me respond only to this point, though:

You wrote:
“If Mr. Obama is open to influence concerning the Second Amendment, I honestly believe the man should not be President of the United States nor that he should be holding the office of a U.S. Senator. Is he that much not grounded in his positions?”

I think Senator Obama has a very clear understanding of Second Amendment and the context in which it was placed. What I do believe and am trying to say, apparently poorly, is that I think he brings a wise and open-minded approach to the as it applies to all Americans – not just those of a like mindset.

Any candidate who would seek office with the assertion that they have all the answers or a monopoly on the wisdom in this matter is either a fool or a charlatan. I think he approaches his office with a strong sense of who he is and what he is about. I also think he has demonstrated a deep respect, even admiration, for those who hold views opposed to his. Some may see this as a weakness, however, I see it as his greatest strength.
Tom Remington

I have to agree with you but you might be missing some of my point(s). I didn’t infer that any candidate should seek office asserting they know it all and/or have all the answers. However, When it comes to our Constitution and in this case the Second Amendment, I believe a candidate should have a position on its interpretation. It has been around for quite a while now.

Which brings us back to the secular, progressive lifestyle, which is one I think Mr. Obama advocates for quite strongly. This of course results in the changing of the Constitution to fit a preferred lifestyle.

Individual choice.
Tom Remington

Rob – I’m not sure that I understand your comment and a need to apologize. My perspective is right of center. I do not advocate for a progressive secular lifestyle. It gets us into far too much trouble.

We should honor the Second Amendment for what it was written for and preserve the guarantee given to us.
Tom Remington

I think I am finding that some of the comments intended for this discussion are getting caught up in the SPAM killer function of this software.

If you have made a comment and it isn’t here, email me and I’ll find it. I do not censor comments, only for bad language.
Tom Remington

Now this makes more sense.

Rob – I didn’t realize one of your posts for whatever the reasons, got caught up in the SPAM killer and got booted out. Now that I see you had a comment, you must have thought I was “censoring” you to keep the discussion strictly on task.

Not the case at all and I apologize for that. The only time I will censor anyone is if they are using bad language, in which case I usually just delete the cuss words, if there is anything left.

For regular readers, if you post a comment and it doesn’t come through, let me know.
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

@Tom and Rob – Not sure where to begin with all of the new comments, but let me clarify my position on Obama: While I don’t agree with his stance on gun control, my position is that I find him to be enough of a wise and reasonable man in the way he approaches the debate around the subject – respecting both sides of the argument – that his positions on that one issue is not a deal breaker for me. I think, taken in the context of this time in history – and what he brings to the table – his unique skill set is what we need as a country. We need a sense of unity as a nation again. We need to end the drama that has passed for politics in the last 30 years. We need a leader who doesn’t demonize those who disagree – one who has the wisdom to reach for common-sense solutions which benefit both sides of the table. I’m not sure what Tom refers to when he says “the secular, progressive lifestyle, which is one I think Mr. Obama advocates for quite strongly.” Obama has spoken very eloquently about faith the importance it plays in politics. I find his grasp of this subject to be impressive. Here’s an example quote:

“secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King – indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history – were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their “personal morality” into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

I will respond to one point, Rob brought about earlier:

@Rob
You wrote:
“But you suggest by your statement that ‘must be done to acknowledge the truths of millions of Americans’ as if all Americans should concede to this. I fully disagree.”

I agree we shouldn’t be concede to this. I do believe that, like it or not , gun owners are increasingly in the minority and that if we don’t modify our arguments to meet these times, then we will ultimately find our voices lost in the greater cacophony of the mainstream – who has no experience with gun ownership. We need to make sure that we frame our positions in ways that are long on the lessons of history and facts, rather than the absolutes that have so often been boilerplate for those who defend all forms of gun control. Case in point: I can’t think of a better illustration for the need to bear arms than the lessons of pre-WWII Nazi expansion and yet, often that example is wielded as a bludgeon rather than as a teachable moment when discussing the issue.

What we often fail to understand is how hollow (even ridiculous) some of our arguments – out of context – against waiting periods, laws against concealed carry, and assault weapon bans sound to those who don’t have a personal experience with responsible gun ownership – what I was attempting to provide in my illustration of personal experiences. We too often fall back on the boilerplate instead of providing solid lessons and illustrations of these measures of gun control would be a bad idea. Indeed, I’ll confess that I find some of the arguments against these measures to be hollow and empty rhetoric.
Tom Remington

Secular Progressive – Secular means a society not based on religion. Once the U.S. was not a secular country. The progressives continue to fight to remove anything remotely referring to God from our books. This becomes more evident each year with the removal of religious holidays, etc. etc.

A progressive is one who makes these statements: “I do believe that, like it or not , gun owners are increasingly in the minority and that if we donâ€™t modify our arguments to meet these times, then we will ultimately find our voices lost in the greater cacophony of the mainstream”
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

@Tom – thanks for clarifying that. In those terms, then, I guess I probably am a “secular progressive.”
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

Clarification: I don’t however stand for trying to “continue to fight to remove anything remotely referring to God from our books” and I don’t think Obama does either – in fact he’s said just the opposite.
Tom Remington

I am not aware that any of the candidate subscribe to that effort – at least openly. It would probably be political suicide.
James

Hey, I really like your 2nd amendment articles, especially the one posted last week that had the Brady Campaign’s rankings of “good states”
Someone who posted mentioned colleges that respect the constitutional right to bear arms. I too am looking at colleges, and wonder if you could maybe write up a list or even just post a link to a link to information on schools and there gun policies. I would appreciate it.
Tom Remington

I’m not sure how long that list will be but I’ll look into it. If I find something, look for a post on the blog itself.
http://lateral-lines.com Jon Clausen

@Rob – with all due respect to Dave Kopel,who has devoted a great deal to Second Amendment rights and whom you quote with “voted against a bi-partisan bill which would prohibit criminal prosecutions of people who used unlicensed guns to lawfully defend their homes against violent felony invaders”, Obama’s vote on that legislation was based on his concern (as well of as that of many others) regarding the legal ramifications that it opened up other cases of unlicensed gun violence – basically the possibility that drug dealers and gang bangers could use the law as precedent in their legal defenses.

He also broke with the gun control groups by backing concealed carry legislation to allow retired law enforcement officers and military police officers immediate privileges upon retirement.

I know I’m going to be the minority on this issue on any blog for sportsmen, but I am trying to at least provide an illustration for how a gun owner and sportsman can be for Obama as well. Obama may not be a straight-ticket anti-gun control voter, but I don’t believe he’s either as liberal (or conservative) as his opponents would make him out to be.
http://www.populistdemocrats.blogspot.com Right Democrat

If Obama wants to win Middle America, he needs to stop talking about gun control. As a Democrat, I wish that my party would embrace the 2nd Amendemnt. If only more gun owners made their voice heard within the Democratic Party, then we might be to move the party in a more pro-gun direction. If you believe in what the Republican Party stands for then support it but I know that a number of Democrats and even progressives support gun rights. Here are a couple of sites for pro-RKBA Democrats.

http://www.a2dems.net
http://www.liberalswithguns.com

Also check out this link to see what some Congressional Democrats are doing to support the 2nd Amendment.
http://rightdemocrat.blogspot.com/2008/02/congressional-democrats-join-challenge.html

Obama I Guess Thinks Second Amendment For Hunters

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