Comments on: Idaho F&G Announces Wolves Major Cause Of Elk Kills http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills Black Bear Blog - The Politics of Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors. Protecting our American Heritage. Sat, 26 May 2012 03:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Tom Remington http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11517 Tom Remington Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:09:15 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11517 Ken - Not that I think it would make you feel any better but your expression of what's taking place is not the only one. Many,many other feel much the same as you do. Hang in there. We can only hope that through all of our hard work and becoming a unified and loud voice, we can accomplish changes. Ken – Not that I think it would make you feel any better but your expression of what’s taking place is not the only one. Many,many other feel much the same as you do. Hang in there. We can only hope that through all of our hard work and becoming a unified and loud voice, we can accomplish changes.

]]> By: Ken Hyde http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11516 Ken Hyde Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:22:28 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11516 We have too many wolf lovers, anti-hunters within the ranks of our own Idaho Dept. of FIsh and Game. They do not listen to the sportsmen or the outfitters, the people out in the woods day in and day out. Ask any hunter where he hunted in Idaho and if he saw any sign of wolves. Every drainage and every unit, the report is always the same. I have been hunting elk during the archery rut season for the last 30 years. I have also guided for an outfitter friend of mine for 10 of those years. My only point here is, that I have been around elk in this state for a very long time. This is the first year in 30 of those years.....that I did not see and elk, did not hear a bugle, a cow mew and very little sign. For years you could at least count on the bulls to bugle in the night to let you know they are around. Now at night all you hear is the howl of the wolf. Any time I did find an elk track, there was a wolf track there as well. I hunt the Sawtooth zone. Each year for the last ten has gotten progressively worse, until this last year when it hit the all time bottom. I am so discouraged and heartbroken over the status of the elk herds in the state and it appears it will only get worse before it gets better. I doubt I will even buy a license or tag next year. Elk hunting used the be the 5th largest econonmy in the state and now non-residents will not come here and soon IF&G will see a larger decrease in resident licenses and tags. They are already wanting to increase fees, but yet they continue not to do anything more to help the sportsmen or to even listen to them. We have wolves being seen on the edge of town here in Boise and the IDF&G wolf expertt says there is at least 3 packs within a 20 mile radius of Boise. THREE packs in a 20 mile radius of the largest city in the state....!!! If there are that many this close to a large metropolis, how many do you possibly think there might be in the over 83,000 square miles of Idaho. The outfitters know, the hunters know and no one is listening. The overall plan of the wolf program is to put an end to all hunting and it is beginning to happen at an alarming rate. No matter how many wolves the packs grow to be, the wolf people will NEVER give into compromise or any sort of management program. They will ALWAYS make it a lawsuit, it has nothing to do with biology or science to them, it is totally political. I hope the IDF&G sees a real bright future for themselves in the sale of wolf viewing tags.....because hunting licenses and tags will continue to decline along with the decline of animal herds. We have too many wolf lovers, anti-hunters within the ranks of our own Idaho Dept. of FIsh and Game. They do not listen to the sportsmen or the outfitters, the people out in the woods day in and day out. Ask any hunter where he hunted in Idaho and if he saw any sign of wolves. Every drainage and every unit, the report is always the same. I have been hunting elk during the archery rut season for the last 30 years. I have also guided for an outfitter friend of mine for 10 of those years. My only point here is, that I have been around elk in this state for a very long time. This is the first year in 30 of those years…..that I did not see and elk, did not hear a bugle, a cow mew and very little sign. For years you could at least count on the bulls to bugle in the night to let you know they are around. Now at night all you hear is the howl of the wolf. Any time I did find an elk track, there was a wolf track there as well. I hunt the Sawtooth zone. Each year for the last ten has gotten progressively worse, until this last year when it hit the all time bottom. I am so discouraged and heartbroken over the status of the elk herds in the state and it appears it will only get worse before it gets better. I doubt I will even buy a license or tag next year. Elk hunting used the be the 5th largest econonmy in the state and now non-residents will not come here and soon IF&G will see a larger decrease in resident licenses and tags. They are already wanting to increase fees, but yet they continue not to do anything more to help the sportsmen or to even listen to them. We have wolves being seen on the edge of town here in Boise and the IDF&G wolf expertt says there is at least 3 packs within a 20 mile radius of Boise. THREE packs in a 20 mile radius of the largest city in the state….!!! If there are that many this close to a large metropolis, how many do you possibly think there might be in the over 83,000 square miles of Idaho. The outfitters know, the hunters know and no one is listening. The overall plan of the wolf program is to put an end to all hunting and it is beginning to happen at an alarming rate. No matter how many wolves the packs grow to be, the wolf people will NEVER give into compromise or any sort of management program. They will ALWAYS make it a lawsuit, it has nothing to do with biology or science to them, it is totally political. I hope the IDF&G sees a real bright future for themselves in the sale of wolf viewing tags…..because hunting licenses and tags will continue to decline along with the decline of animal herds.

]]> By: Jordan http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11515 Jordan Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:52:23 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11515 I think this is a great article. I was hunting with my dad in zone 3 in Montana this year. Every hunter that we talked to along with ourselves, realized that the herds were down and the wolves were everywhere. We saw 3 wolves in one day!! One running across the highway and 2 up in the mountains. The herds of elk that used to be 200 are now down to groups (not herds) of ten. No calfs in these groups! The bulls are high and by themselves, there is something that has changed in that pasted 8 years that I have hunted. The elk are running at the faint sound of anything, and the fact that I saw maybe 10 calfs out of 500 elk in a week. I think that there is something very wrong! Management needs to change fast. I think this is a great article. I was hunting with my dad in zone 3 in Montana this year. Every hunter that we talked to along with ourselves, realized that the herds were down and the wolves were everywhere. We saw 3 wolves in one day!! One running across the highway and 2 up in the mountains. The herds of elk that used to be 200 are now down to groups (not herds) of ten. No calfs in these groups! The bulls are high and by themselves, there is something that has changed in that pasted 8 years that I have hunted. The elk are running at the faint sound of anything, and the fact that I saw maybe 10 calfs out of 500 elk in a week. I think that there is something very wrong! Management needs to change fast.

]]> By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11511 Lee Mon, 01 Dec 2008 00:09:33 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11511 Phil, For the 2nd time I DID NOT SAY only one calf elk was killed in the Lolo by wolves. Please, read my last post carefully (#16). I live in western Oregon but was raised and vacation in Idaho. I have lots of relates there. Some hunt in the Clearwater area. This will get you started on how many and where; in the left column select "population fact sheet". http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/ In 2006 they listed 713 wolves and 46 breeding pairs in Idaho. So now you can answer your own question! "If thats the case, then you numbers are way way off." I didn't give any numbers! Phil, For the 2nd time I DID NOT SAY only one calf elk was killed in the Lolo by wolves. Please, read my last post carefully (#16).
I live in western Oregon but was raised and vacation in Idaho. I have lots of relates there. Some hunt in the Clearwater area.
This will get you started on how many and where; in the left column select “population fact sheet”.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/
In 2006 they listed 713 wolves and 46 breeding pairs in Idaho. So now you can answer your own question!
“If thats the case, then you numbers are way way off.” I didn’t give any numbers!

]]> By: Phil http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11510 Phil Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:43:20 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11510 Lee I don't know if you are a Idaho gov't official or not, if you are then get out and see for your self, whether you are in Lolo, Dworshak, or the sawtooth range! They are all the same. There is a large increase of wolf crap, tracks in the mud/snow, sightings, wolves baying up in the middle of the morning. That along with the decrease of Elk and lets not forget the deer, tells one thing. There are too many wolves. I'm not saying kill all the wolves, but conservation is a hell of a lot better than presevation. To say that wolves only killed one Elk calf in the Lolo's is just plain stupid. Tell me one thing, is it true that Feds only count breading couples and not the entire pack? If thats the case, then you numbers are way way off. Lee

I don’t know if you are a Idaho gov’t official or not, if you are then get out and see for your self, whether you are in Lolo, Dworshak, or the sawtooth range! They are all the same. There is a large increase of wolf crap, tracks in the mud/snow, sightings, wolves baying up in the middle of the morning. That along with the decrease of Elk and lets not forget the deer, tells one thing. There are too many wolves. I’m not saying kill all the wolves, but conservation is a hell of a lot better than presevation. To say that wolves only killed one Elk calf in the Lolo’s is just plain stupid. Tell me one thing, is it true that Feds only count breading couples and not the entire pack? If thats the case, then you numbers are way way off.

]]> By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11509 Lee Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:44:12 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11509 Greg, there was a study done to determine mortality of elk calves. If you want the numbers read the report. Some of the calves in the study survivied, some were killed by black bear, some by cougar, one by a wolf. I did not say only one calf has ever been killed by a wolf. Greg, there was a study done to determine mortality of elk calves. If you want the numbers read the report. Some of the calves in the study survivied, some were killed by black bear, some by cougar, one by a wolf. I did not say only one calf has ever been killed by a wolf.

]]> By: Jim Richards http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11508 Jim Richards Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:29:30 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11508 I agree with Greg until you have been out there and done the foot work to see up close and personal for yourself you can't set in a goverment office and estimate the destruction the wolves are doing to the elk herd and be anywhere close to what is really happening to the elk. The elk herds are and will remain in trouble until we take control of these predators. I agree with Greg until you have been out there and done the foot work to see up close and personal for yourself you can’t set in a goverment office and estimate the destruction the wolves are doing to the elk herd and be anywhere close to what is really happening to the elk.
The elk herds are and will remain in trouble until we take control of these predators.

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11507 Greg Farber Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:18:30 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11507 I find it irritating when FWS and IFG biologist estimations rule the day, No outfitter on the ground and that has lost his clientel is credible, hundreds of hunters on the ground are not credible either..travelers to winter ranges surrounded in deep snows watching ranges that once held 18,000++++Elk and now hold from four elk to four hundred elk, mostly cow elk with no calves and report what they see, including myself, having spent my funds on fuel and wear and tear on my vehicles to go see the facts in wide open living color get no credibility either...Other sportsmens and outfitters associations use their planes to fly Idaho while snow covered looking for Idaho's elk, and upon not finding those normally easy to locate large herds asked IFG WHERE are all the ELK !!! IFG, said well we got this paper work here of biological etimations for ya boys and you can trust us to tell you the truth because we got no reason to LIE to ya.....OK, then why are they lying to me ????????????? Estimated reports from FWS-IFG controlled biologists who either support the wolf re-introduction or fear jobloss are not credible either. When field agents of IFG are under gag rules and fear to express their honest opinions IFG becomes NON CREDIBLE. Now pressure is gonna get them coming out like the Deputy Director Jim Unsworth, and putting blame where blame needs put, ON WOLVES. I'm looking forwards to a winter of traveling hunt units once again to seek out what my eyes tell me, not some BULLSHIT PAPER ESTIMATIONS WHICH ARE NEVER CREDIBLE. 33/34/35/36/43/44/48/49/50/51/52/ via Truck/Snowmoblie/horse/foot here I come again. My eyes are credible, and my logical use of my own intellect to see the lack of elk in normal winter ranges which are not there needs no further explanation to myself. Who knows, perhaps the 150 bulls that used to winter here behind the house which have been gone now for five years, and dwindled down over the last 12, will be back, with yearling bulls like used to be the case every year before those KNASHING OF THEIR TEETH USELESS VARMINT WOLVES appeared back on the scene. "THEY" can keep on using their double standards all "THEY" want. I will stock up on more CROW, double cellofane wrapped so its not freezer burnt, so when "THEIR" mountain of lies falls down from the weight of truth crushing it finally I WILL START UP THE CROW CHILI FEED for fools. I find it irritating when FWS and IFG biologist estimations rule the day, No outfitter on the ground and that has lost his clientel is credible, hundreds of hunters on the ground are not credible either..travelers to winter ranges surrounded in deep snows watching ranges that once held 18,000++++Elk and now hold from four elk to four hundred elk, mostly cow elk with no calves and report what they see, including myself, having spent my funds on fuel and wear and tear on my vehicles to go see the facts in wide open living color get no credibility either…Other sportsmens and outfitters associations use their planes to fly Idaho while snow covered looking for Idaho’s elk, and upon not finding those normally easy to locate large herds asked IFG WHERE are all the ELK !!! IFG, said well we got this paper work here of biological etimations for ya boys and you can trust us to tell you the truth because we got no reason to LIE to ya…..OK, then why are they lying to me ?????????????

Estimated reports from FWS-IFG controlled biologists who either support the wolf re-introduction or fear jobloss are not credible either. When field agents of IFG are under gag rules and fear to express their honest opinions IFG becomes NON CREDIBLE. Now pressure is gonna get them coming out like the Deputy Director Jim Unsworth, and putting blame where blame needs put, ON WOLVES. I’m looking forwards to a winter of traveling hunt units once again to seek out what my eyes tell me, not some BULLSHIT PAPER ESTIMATIONS WHICH ARE NEVER CREDIBLE. 33/34/35/36/43/44/48/49/50/51/52/ via Truck/Snowmoblie/horse/foot here I come again. My eyes are credible, and my logical use of my own intellect to see the lack of elk in normal winter ranges which are not there needs no further explanation to myself. Who knows, perhaps the 150 bulls that used to winter here behind the house which have been gone now for five years, and dwindled down over the last 12, will be back, with yearling bulls like used to be the case every year before those KNASHING OF THEIR TEETH USELESS VARMINT WOLVES appeared back on the scene.

“THEY” can keep on using their double standards all “THEY” want. I will stock up on more CROW, double cellofane wrapped so its not freezer burnt, so when “THEIR” mountain of lies falls down from the weight of truth crushing it finally I WILL START UP THE CROW CHILI FEED for fools.

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11506 Greg Farber Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:13:41 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11506 Lee, Are saying wolves killed only one calf in the Lolo ? Have you ever traveled in there ? Could we get some perspective other than FWS and IFG bullshit reports ? I am sick of hearing about this BULLSHIT HABITAT LIE LEE...Ive packed that country and failed to see the barren waste lands you and your government goons keep pointing to...Thats some of the thickest trash Ive ever been in. I hope others been on the ground in the Lolo will chime in and give us the FACTS their eyeballs showed them, instead of your damn paper trails you continually point to. Lee,

Are saying wolves killed only one calf in the Lolo ? Have you ever traveled in there ? Could we get some perspective other than FWS and IFG bullshit reports ? I am sick of hearing about this BULLSHIT HABITAT LIE LEE…Ive packed that country and failed to see the barren waste lands you and your government goons keep pointing to…Thats some of the thickest trash Ive ever been in. I hope others been on the ground in the Lolo will chime in and give us the FACTS their eyeballs showed them, instead of your damn paper trails you continually point to.

]]> By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2008/11/28/idaho-fg-announces-wolves-major-cause-of-elk-kills/#comment-11505 Lee Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:18:24 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=4360#comment-11505 A brief summary of the Idaho Lolo wolf removal proposal survey: 15 groups responded, 4 for removal (3 of them local); 2 neutral; and 9 opposed that included 5 local groups. Of the 682 individual responses, NOT including the 41,738 from Defenders of Wildlife, 264 favored and 558 opposed reducing the wolf population. The herd in question was declining prior to the reintroduction of wolves. The forests removed by fires of the early 1900s that created such great habitat have regrown. A brief summary of the Idaho Lolo wolf removal proposal survey: 15 groups responded, 4 for removal (3 of them local); 2 neutral; and 9 opposed that included 5 local groups.
Of the 682 individual responses, NOT including the 41,738 from Defenders of Wildlife, 264 favored and 558 opposed reducing the wolf population.
The herd in question was declining prior to the reintroduction of wolves. The forests removed by fires of the early 1900s that created such great habitat have regrown.

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