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	<title>Comments on: Panel Discussions On Wolves A True Reflection</title>
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		<title>By: Chandie</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13397</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 23:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13397</guid>
		<description>I tried a couple times to make comments on Ralph Maughans website, and was instantly deleted both times.  

The second time I gave some information on my families pioneer history, including a book my great-aunt wrote about settling the Palouse, in Northern Idaho.  Our high school studied this book, Today is Ours; and it is sold in the Moscow, Idaho historical center.  It talks about the hardships early pioneers had prior to the railroad coming in, which my great grandfather N.A. Nelson was hired as the foreman to build from Spokane, Wa to Julietta, Idaho, then it continued to Lewiston.  

The indians picked camus roots in our fields, and raced their horses.  The areas was called, &quot;The place of the fawns.&quot;  

This is just one set of great grandparents from Sweden that came to Moscow, Idaho.  The book details the local people mainly farmers from Norway and Sweden, who were tough hard workers, and community builders.  My great-grandfather bought a farm, and grew wheat using 30 Percheron Horses, for hill side farming.  They were stewards of the land, and came out here when it was just being settled.  

We plowed up hundreds of arrow heads on our farm.  

Not only was I deleted from Ralph Maughan&#039;s site, but I noticed he added a quote, from some source he claims is Charles Russell&#039;s the Western Painter, who imortalized western life, with his famous ranch scenes, cowboys, indians, depicting all early western real life situations.  

The quote is a slap in the face about the early Pioneers.  

Log on to his site, and look at it.  

At the end of my post,, I said now you can hit the delete button.  It looked like he hit it, and added this insult afterwards.

Thanks Tom for your site, and your research.  I enjoy Greg Farber&#039;s comments on the blogs.  Keep up the hard work, and research you guys.  

Greg,  The beetle was being managed by our loggers effectively.  The minute they see rust damage on the needles, a bug patch, they log it out, before it spreads.

Loggers have planted more trees than any of these tree huggers ever had, or will.  They don&#039;t live with the land, and understand every inch like our fore-fathers did.  We had to manage our land, timber resources, and wildlife, because we depended on it to survive.  Harvesting and Replanting, Crop Rotation, Strip Farming to prevent erosion, and provide acres of bushels of nutritious grain to feed America and the World.  I&quot;m a forth generation wheat farmer&#039;s daughter, on one side; and sixth generation descendant, from my mother&#039;s mother&#039;s side, who were pioneers that settled outside of Viola, Idaho.  My great, great, great, grandparents are buried in the Viola Cemetary.  They came in a covered wagon, from Spring, Colorado; originally from Kansas.

My great grandmother was three when they traveled in the covered wagon.  She would later marry George Hare, who came out as a ten year old to farm, after his father was struck by lightening, and his mother died in child birth.  His grandmother took over raising his siblings, and managing the farm; George wanted to go West.  He had a small fruit farm.  Hard workers, loved the land.

Timber is renewable, and managed by educated loggers, is replanted, and disease is prevented by culling out the bug infested trees.  Forestry Majors work with the loggers, and have for years.

Sportsmen who pay for all the wildlife conservation, and have managed predators, with healthy numbers of moose, elk, and deer; including managing predators like cougar, and bear are the true wildlife success stories, and contributors.  It took generations to build up our elk, moose, mule deer populations, with a healthy balance of cougars and bear.

They brought in this second to the largest keystone apex predator, from the Artic Circle, which was a miss-match for our delicate ecosystem, as Val Geist, Dr. Charles Kay, and Tom Bergerud warned.  

It was a planned agenda to end:  hunting, ranching, farming, logging, and stop all public recreation of our National Park Lands.  Who can enjoy our National Forests with their children and dogs, or horses, with packs of wolves that aren&#039;t endangered, but unmanaged and politically protected?

Study the Wildlands Project, International Soverienty, Agenda 21, Club of Rome, the New Green World Order.  Tell your schools, teachers, and get on Idaho for Wildlife, a new website.

I want to thank Greg for your hard research, love your comments.  Tom great informational site.

Advise:  You might want to add links to:  Range News, or Range as it is called.  They have a great article about  Mike Jimenz who was caught with huge Canadian Gray Wolves on a ranchers calving ground, on private property.

In addition they have two ranchers from Wyoming telling their story of Jon Marvel going after them.  One rancher hired a lawyer, and they investiaged the Wyoming BLM, with the Freedom of Information Act, uncovered a direct pipeline of money being funneled into their employees salaries from Western Watershed.  

Keep up the research, protect your property, our wildlife, our freedom.  Our fore-fathers didn&#039;t fight in the trenches for:  Socialism, Communism, Third Reich, or Facisim. 

These kids are being endoctrinated and they don&#039;t even realize it.  They won&#039;t until it&#039;s too late.  Only the elitist rich, will be able to enjoy our states natural resources, National Parks, and Wilderness; and that includes the Buffer Zones, on Public Property, as well as Private Property.

They have infilterated:  Federal and State Government Agencies, and their Non-Profit Agencies are paying for their allegiance.

They control the media and newspapers.  

Keep calling your legislatures, educate your people, and our youth, who are the real losers, with this wolf experiment; which was doomed to fail, before it was even started. 

Honest people see through the smoke screens.  We know the damage first hand, us rural citizens with no agenda, who have lived here for generations.

Indian tribes in Alaska and Canada are trying to educate our Indians about this unessential, very prolific top keystone predator the Canadian Gray Wolf; they are telling them about the White Man&#039;s Lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried a couple times to make comments on Ralph Maughans website, and was instantly deleted both times.  </p>
<p>The second time I gave some information on my families pioneer history, including a book my great-aunt wrote about settling the Palouse, in Northern Idaho.  Our high school studied this book, Today is Ours; and it is sold in the Moscow, Idaho historical center.  It talks about the hardships early pioneers had prior to the railroad coming in, which my great grandfather N.A. Nelson was hired as the foreman to build from Spokane, Wa to Julietta, Idaho, then it continued to Lewiston.  </p>
<p>The indians picked camus roots in our fields, and raced their horses.  The areas was called, &#8220;The place of the fawns.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This is just one set of great grandparents from Sweden that came to Moscow, Idaho.  The book details the local people mainly farmers from Norway and Sweden, who were tough hard workers, and community builders.  My great-grandfather bought a farm, and grew wheat using 30 Percheron Horses, for hill side farming.  They were stewards of the land, and came out here when it was just being settled.  </p>
<p>We plowed up hundreds of arrow heads on our farm.  </p>
<p>Not only was I deleted from Ralph Maughan&#8217;s site, but I noticed he added a quote, from some source he claims is Charles Russell&#8217;s the Western Painter, who imortalized western life, with his famous ranch scenes, cowboys, indians, depicting all early western real life situations.  </p>
<p>The quote is a slap in the face about the early Pioneers.  </p>
<p>Log on to his site, and look at it.  </p>
<p>At the end of my post,, I said now you can hit the delete button.  It looked like he hit it, and added this insult afterwards.</p>
<p>Thanks Tom for your site, and your research.  I enjoy Greg Farber&#8217;s comments on the blogs.  Keep up the hard work, and research you guys.  </p>
<p>Greg,  The beetle was being managed by our loggers effectively.  The minute they see rust damage on the needles, a bug patch, they log it out, before it spreads.</p>
<p>Loggers have planted more trees than any of these tree huggers ever had, or will.  They don&#8217;t live with the land, and understand every inch like our fore-fathers did.  We had to manage our land, timber resources, and wildlife, because we depended on it to survive.  Harvesting and Replanting, Crop Rotation, Strip Farming to prevent erosion, and provide acres of bushels of nutritious grain to feed America and the World.  I&#8221;m a forth generation wheat farmer&#8217;s daughter, on one side; and sixth generation descendant, from my mother&#8217;s mother&#8217;s side, who were pioneers that settled outside of Viola, Idaho.  My great, great, great, grandparents are buried in the Viola Cemetary.  They came in a covered wagon, from Spring, Colorado; originally from Kansas.</p>
<p>My great grandmother was three when they traveled in the covered wagon.  She would later marry George Hare, who came out as a ten year old to farm, after his father was struck by lightening, and his mother died in child birth.  His grandmother took over raising his siblings, and managing the farm; George wanted to go West.  He had a small fruit farm.  Hard workers, loved the land.</p>
<p>Timber is renewable, and managed by educated loggers, is replanted, and disease is prevented by culling out the bug infested trees.  Forestry Majors work with the loggers, and have for years.</p>
<p>Sportsmen who pay for all the wildlife conservation, and have managed predators, with healthy numbers of moose, elk, and deer; including managing predators like cougar, and bear are the true wildlife success stories, and contributors.  It took generations to build up our elk, moose, mule deer populations, with a healthy balance of cougars and bear.</p>
<p>They brought in this second to the largest keystone apex predator, from the Artic Circle, which was a miss-match for our delicate ecosystem, as Val Geist, Dr. Charles Kay, and Tom Bergerud warned.  </p>
<p>It was a planned agenda to end:  hunting, ranching, farming, logging, and stop all public recreation of our National Park Lands.  Who can enjoy our National Forests with their children and dogs, or horses, with packs of wolves that aren&#8217;t endangered, but unmanaged and politically protected?</p>
<p>Study the Wildlands Project, International Soverienty, Agenda 21, Club of Rome, the New Green World Order.  Tell your schools, teachers, and get on Idaho for Wildlife, a new website.</p>
<p>I want to thank Greg for your hard research, love your comments.  Tom great informational site.</p>
<p>Advise:  You might want to add links to:  Range News, or Range as it is called.  They have a great article about  Mike Jimenz who was caught with huge Canadian Gray Wolves on a ranchers calving ground, on private property.</p>
<p>In addition they have two ranchers from Wyoming telling their story of Jon Marvel going after them.  One rancher hired a lawyer, and they investiaged the Wyoming BLM, with the Freedom of Information Act, uncovered a direct pipeline of money being funneled into their employees salaries from Western Watershed.  </p>
<p>Keep up the research, protect your property, our wildlife, our freedom.  Our fore-fathers didn&#8217;t fight in the trenches for:  Socialism, Communism, Third Reich, or Facisim. </p>
<p>These kids are being endoctrinated and they don&#8217;t even realize it.  They won&#8217;t until it&#8217;s too late.  Only the elitist rich, will be able to enjoy our states natural resources, National Parks, and Wilderness; and that includes the Buffer Zones, on Public Property, as well as Private Property.</p>
<p>They have infilterated:  Federal and State Government Agencies, and their Non-Profit Agencies are paying for their allegiance.</p>
<p>They control the media and newspapers.  </p>
<p>Keep calling your legislatures, educate your people, and our youth, who are the real losers, with this wolf experiment; which was doomed to fail, before it was even started. </p>
<p>Honest people see through the smoke screens.  We know the damage first hand, us rural citizens with no agenda, who have lived here for generations.</p>
<p>Indian tribes in Alaska and Canada are trying to educate our Indians about this unessential, very prolific top keystone predator the Canadian Gray Wolf; they are telling them about the White Man&#8217;s Lies.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13395</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13395</guid>
		<description>Greg, this is not a game.  I am not taking words out of context, just repeating what YOU have posted in the past. 

Greg said  &quot;Where is your valued debate hidden away at.&quot;  Is this a question?  If so I have no idea what you are questioning.

&quot;Or is all you ever offer are these attempts to discredit. &quot;  Greg, that is what you do, and usually with insults.

Greg&#039;s repsonse will duck the issue, again, as usual.

I ask again: &quot;What did you suggest if not that the population of elk went from 125,000 to 25,000 in the time between YOUR two comments.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, this is not a game.  I am not taking words out of context, just repeating what YOU have posted in the past. </p>
<p>Greg said  &#8220;Where is your valued debate hidden away at.&#8221;  Is this a question?  If so I have no idea what you are questioning.</p>
<p>&#8220;Or is all you ever offer are these attempts to discredit. &#8221;  Greg, that is what you do, and usually with insults.</p>
<p>Greg&#8217;s repsonse will duck the issue, again, as usual.</p>
<p>I ask again: &#8220;What did you suggest if not that the population of elk went from 125,000 to 25,000 in the time between YOUR two comments.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13394</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 00:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13394</guid>
		<description>This is all you ever represent is games Lee, nothing but your games.. Where is your valued debate hidden away at..Or is all you ever offer are these attempts to discredit.. Of course Idaho and it&#039;s 41% forested lands or 22 million acres of Forest could not handle more than 125,000 elk could it? Not counting how many millions of acres of B.L.M and farm lands we have over here in our state..our backyard, Mr. do gooder ! Well we don&#039;t have the elk now do we Lee...Where are they oh wise one ?  You know full well I am pointing to 14 years of wolf program wreckage, and your taking those two comments out of context..and twisting them about.... I live in it and see it first hand what seems to be your excuse, I do not see you in the Frank wolf devastated Church Lee..I do not see you in the Sawtooth wolf devastated Wilderness Lee...I will not give up my sources as they have families to support, something the Ertz&#039;s Marvels, Maughans and your self do not care two shits about.. as long as you scum get your way you care for nothing else..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all you ever represent is games Lee, nothing but your games.. Where is your valued debate hidden away at..Or is all you ever offer are these attempts to discredit.. Of course Idaho and it&#8217;s 41% forested lands or 22 million acres of Forest could not handle more than 125,000 elk could it? Not counting how many millions of acres of B.L.M and farm lands we have over here in our state..our backyard, Mr. do gooder ! Well we don&#8217;t have the elk now do we Lee&#8230;Where are they oh wise one ?  You know full well I am pointing to 14 years of wolf program wreckage, and your taking those two comments out of context..and twisting them about&#8230;. I live in it and see it first hand what seems to be your excuse, I do not see you in the Frank wolf devastated Church Lee..I do not see you in the Sawtooth wolf devastated Wilderness Lee&#8230;I will not give up my sources as they have families to support, something the Ertz&#8217;s Marvels, Maughans and your self do not care two shits about.. as long as you scum get your way you care for nothing else..</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13393</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 21:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13393</guid>
		<description>What did you suggest if not that the population of elk went from 125,000 to  25,000 in the time between YOUR  two comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What did you suggest if not that the population of elk went from 125,000 to  25,000 in the time between YOUR  two comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13392</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 20:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13392</guid>
		<description>I did not suggest that took place in one year, and the 125,000 estimate is to government numbers..Which can not be proven either..

Meanwhile the hunting regulations once again show a decline in available hunting opportunity...Less tags and less days to hunt !

I wonder why the regulations and hunting opportunity are regressing backwards...in the last 8 years yet for the last five years I have seen less hunters in the field. 

Seen any photos of those 125,000 Bulls, cows and calves standing at winter ranges ?  

Where the heck are they ?  Just some simple photo shots of that would de-bunk this myth.. 

Fortunately wolves eat one another...What a beautiful thing..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not suggest that took place in one year, and the 125,000 estimate is to government numbers..Which can not be proven either..</p>
<p>Meanwhile the hunting regulations once again show a decline in available hunting opportunity&#8230;Less tags and less days to hunt !</p>
<p>I wonder why the regulations and hunting opportunity are regressing backwards&#8230;in the last 8 years yet for the last five years I have seen less hunters in the field. </p>
<p>Seen any photos of those 125,000 Bulls, cows and calves standing at winter ranges ?  </p>
<p>Where the heck are they ?  Just some simple photo shots of that would de-bunk this myth.. </p>
<p>Fortunately wolves eat one another&#8230;What a beautiful thing..</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13391</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13391</guid>
		<description>Greg I was not using government numbers.  These are YOUR quotes!

From:  &quot;It is now 125,000. (January 10th, 2007) &quot; to &quot;now we got 25,000 elk in Idaho or less, ” (08/05/08).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg I was not using government numbers.  These are YOUR quotes!</p>
<p>From:  &#8220;It is now 125,000. (January 10th, 2007) &#8221; to &#8220;now we got 25,000 elk in Idaho or less, ” (08/05/08).</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13390</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13390</guid>
		<description>No I am not. I believe Idaho had more elk prior to wolves being &quot;re-introduced&quot; than estimated records indicated at that time, and since the information I read then is unavailable today, and was also estimated then as well..the entire subject is a waste of time..IFG has zero credibility and you and your ilk know it..unless their lies are in your favour and the wolves.. 

Prove those elk did not exist...You can&#039;t any more than I can prove they did..

Mismanaged hunting units and wolves are responsible, especially wolves as they kill the future elk which is the herds foundation, no calves no elk, hunters only rarely take the calves in fall, wolves kill every calf they find..even rip them out of the mother&#039;s belly..

At least you know how to swallow government bullshit and copy and paste, I commend you Comrade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No I am not. I believe Idaho had more elk prior to wolves being &#8220;re-introduced&#8221; than estimated records indicated at that time, and since the information I read then is unavailable today, and was also estimated then as well..the entire subject is a waste of time..IFG has zero credibility and you and your ilk know it..unless their lies are in your favour and the wolves.. </p>
<p>Prove those elk did not exist&#8230;You can&#8217;t any more than I can prove they did..</p>
<p>Mismanaged hunting units and wolves are responsible, especially wolves as they kill the future elk which is the herds foundation, no calves no elk, hunters only rarely take the calves in fall, wolves kill every calf they find..even rip them out of the mother&#8217;s belly..</p>
<p>At least you know how to swallow government bullshit and copy and paste, I commend you Comrade.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13389</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 15:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13389</guid>
		<description>I have 2 questions.

Greg Farber Says: 

&quot;180,000 to 200,000 elk as so stated by fish and game numbers in the early 1990s, and conveniently tucked away from public reach. &quot; (May 1, 2008)

&quot;The figures are state counts from 1994 thru 2007. At the beginning of this program, our elk population was 235,000. It is now 125,000 or less. (January 10th, 2007) &quot; 

1.  Which figures are you going with for the early 1990s?  There is a difference of 55,000 elk  between your stated highest to lowest numbers.

&quot; I also never said anything about not allowing wolves to be in Idaho, The mistake here is the state of Idaho not being in control from the get go, now we got 25,000 elk in Idaho or less, &quot; (08/05/08).

2. You are telling readers that Idaho wolves killed 100,000 elk  between Jan 2007 and August 2008?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have 2 questions.</p>
<p>Greg Farber Says: </p>
<p>&#8220;180,000 to 200,000 elk as so stated by fish and game numbers in the early 1990s, and conveniently tucked away from public reach. &#8221; (May 1, 2008)</p>
<p>&#8220;The figures are state counts from 1994 thru 2007. At the beginning of this program, our elk population was 235,000. It is now 125,000 or less. (January 10th, 2007) &#8221; </p>
<p>1.  Which figures are you going with for the early 1990s?  There is a difference of 55,000 elk  between your stated highest to lowest numbers.</p>
<p>&#8221; I also never said anything about not allowing wolves to be in Idaho, The mistake here is the state of Idaho not being in control from the get go, now we got 25,000 elk in Idaho or less, &#8221; (08/05/08).</p>
<p>2. You are telling readers that Idaho wolves killed 100,000 elk  between Jan 2007 and August 2008?</p>
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		<title>By: GREG F FARBER</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13388</link>
		<dc:creator>GREG F FARBER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 15:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13388</guid>
		<description>Nice of you to share your last name finally, Lee Rubbish...

Anonymity does not warrant non credibility. 

Many Wardens for the State of Idaho disagree with you Lee in private, they do not have the luxury of free speech, unless they decide the truth is worth being relieved of duty.. 

F.W.S controls I.F.G. with money and power.. Lies rule the day in your world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice of you to share your last name finally, Lee Rubbish&#8230;</p>
<p>Anonymity does not warrant non credibility. </p>
<p>Many Wardens for the State of Idaho disagree with you Lee in private, they do not have the luxury of free speech, unless they decide the truth is worth being relieved of duty.. </p>
<p>F.W.S controls I.F.G. with money and power.. Lies rule the day in your world.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/04/24/panel-discussions-on-wolves-a-true-reflection/#comment-13387</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 14:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6115#comment-13387</guid>
		<description>Rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rubbish.</p>
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