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	<title>Comments on: Does Maine Have A Deer Management Problem? &#8211; Part III</title>
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	<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii</link>
	<description>Black Bear Blog - The Politics of Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors. Protecting our American Heritage.</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Martineau</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13615</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Martineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13615</guid>
		<description>Tom, Thank you for responding. Money is part of the key as the department is no longer self sustaining. Money brought in buy the department can be used in other places. Manpower is spread out thin also doing things not pertaining to hunting fishing and trapping. Outdoors people do not stick together for the betterment of all. They fight one another. I will say that the department is a people management system. They say how much we can bag, when we can bag it and how much it will cost to do it. With the exceptions of the wildlife areas such as Brownfield bog etc. , they do nothing. I no longer call for shots I hear on night hunting around the house as I see no one showing up. I reported last year of cutting clearing and escavating too close to an atlantic salmon breading stream. Never saw or heard anything from the department so I say why bother. Again Tom, I want to thank you for letting me blow off steam and thank you for your interest in the problem. Oh and by the way, the department will only tell you what is politicaly correct not how they feel about the problem personaly. Good luck with your hunting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, Thank you for responding. Money is part of the key as the department is no longer self sustaining. Money brought in buy the department can be used in other places. Manpower is spread out thin also doing things not pertaining to hunting fishing and trapping. Outdoors people do not stick together for the betterment of all. They fight one another. I will say that the department is a people management system. They say how much we can bag, when we can bag it and how much it will cost to do it. With the exceptions of the wildlife areas such as Brownfield bog etc. , they do nothing. I no longer call for shots I hear on night hunting around the house as I see no one showing up. I reported last year of cutting clearing and escavating too close to an atlantic salmon breading stream. Never saw or heard anything from the department so I say why bother. Again Tom, I want to thank you for letting me blow off steam and thank you for your interest in the problem. Oh and by the way, the department will only tell you what is politicaly correct not how they feel about the problem personaly. Good luck with your hunting.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Remington</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13614</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Remington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13614</guid>
		<description>Fred -  Let me try to respond to a couple things. The topic of taxes and tree growth land etc. is certainly a debatable issue, one that I&#039;m not qualified to weigh in on. And as you know, it&#039;s always a sticky wicket when you begin talking about private property and property rights. This also pertains to logging operations. 

I have documented before about where I have spent over 35 years at &quot;our&quot; hunting camp and about 30 years ago it seemed every tree worth anything at all on hundreds and hundreds of acres was stripped clean. The excellent deer hunting turned to starkness, followed by more moose than anyone cared for. Today, the forests are regrowing and there are signs of the deer returning. This area also faces many coyotes. 

During a flyover the winter before last, one warden told me this area looked like a blood bath of deer kills by coyotes.

I remember hunting in the seventies. It was awful. In 1975 I hunted everyday except one of the open season and never saw one deer - not one. You are right that Maine, particularly northern Maine, sits on the very outer fringes of whitetail deer range. Sustaining a deer herd in northern Maine is marginal at best but now couple that with the slashing of forests and in particular the deer yards, along with too many predators and now we are staring down the barrel of a non sustainable deer population.

We still have no real predator management program. All that has really been done is to lengthen the season on coyotes. 

In northern and eastern Maine where the deer population suffers the most, shouldn&#039;t we be considering increasing the harvest on moose that directly compete with deer for food? And shouldn&#039;t we be increasing the harvest of bears?

Follow the money and the politics and you&#039;ll find your reasons. It bothers me that in reports readily made by the MDIFW, we continually read that for &quot;social&quot; reasons certain aspects of wildlife management has changed, etc. Social reasons? In other words, they are doing everything they can to avoid fielding complaints from the animal rights groups and anti hunting groups and so they try to manage wildlife in a socially acceptable manner. Where&#039;s the science?

I don&#039;t believe you will ever see a change in the current &quot;Any-Deer Permit&quot; system of population management for deer. They are completely sold on it for several reasons, one being that it works well for them politically and socially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred &#8211;  Let me try to respond to a couple things. The topic of taxes and tree growth land etc. is certainly a debatable issue, one that I&#8217;m not qualified to weigh in on. And as you know, it&#8217;s always a sticky wicket when you begin talking about private property and property rights. This also pertains to logging operations. </p>
<p>I have documented before about where I have spent over 35 years at &#8220;our&#8221; hunting camp and about 30 years ago it seemed every tree worth anything at all on hundreds and hundreds of acres was stripped clean. The excellent deer hunting turned to starkness, followed by more moose than anyone cared for. Today, the forests are regrowing and there are signs of the deer returning. This area also faces many coyotes. </p>
<p>During a flyover the winter before last, one warden told me this area looked like a blood bath of deer kills by coyotes.</p>
<p>I remember hunting in the seventies. It was awful. In 1975 I hunted everyday except one of the open season and never saw one deer &#8211; not one. You are right that Maine, particularly northern Maine, sits on the very outer fringes of whitetail deer range. Sustaining a deer herd in northern Maine is marginal at best but now couple that with the slashing of forests and in particular the deer yards, along with too many predators and now we are staring down the barrel of a non sustainable deer population.</p>
<p>We still have no real predator management program. All that has really been done is to lengthen the season on coyotes. </p>
<p>In northern and eastern Maine where the deer population suffers the most, shouldn&#8217;t we be considering increasing the harvest on moose that directly compete with deer for food? And shouldn&#8217;t we be increasing the harvest of bears?</p>
<p>Follow the money and the politics and you&#8217;ll find your reasons. It bothers me that in reports readily made by the MDIFW, we continually read that for &#8220;social&#8221; reasons certain aspects of wildlife management has changed, etc. Social reasons? In other words, they are doing everything they can to avoid fielding complaints from the animal rights groups and anti hunting groups and so they try to manage wildlife in a socially acceptable manner. Where&#8217;s the science?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe you will ever see a change in the current &#8220;Any-Deer Permit&#8221; system of population management for deer. They are completely sold on it for several reasons, one being that it works well for them politically and socially.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Martineau</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13613</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Martineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13613</guid>
		<description>Tom, I enjoyed you articles very much. The dept. deer management policy has not changed anything over the last 25 years. I argued that years ago. The management policy affects only unorganized townships. The cutting of deer yards has and will in the future keep the herd from rebounding. The department can do nothing in organized towns. I&#039;ve seen yard after yard clear cut and the deer disappear. One yard area I used to hunt was where the town lines of Glenburn, Hudson and Kenduskeag meet. Another is Meadow brook bog in Andover. Both had large deer populations and big bucks. They both have been cut to death and the deer have gone with the trees. Land posting is also a large problem. Any deer permits are given to land owners with the idea of keeping thier land open to hunting. It doesn&#039;t happen and there is no people or way to check on it. The third problem is Coyotes. It took the department about 20 years to agree with what we already knew. Coyotes kill strong and healthy deer. In the winter they kill and when the deer has frozen solid , they kill again without finishing the first one.  I say let the department manage all deer yards. ( you may even ask each hunter each year for a dollar to be used by the department to buy some of this land and manage it.  I say it&#039;s ok to post around houses livestock etc. but people who own large holding and pay tree growth taxes are stealing our money because we have to pay the difference in the taxes and they are closing the woods off to the public. My suggestion is to tax them the same way I&#039;m taxed for the land that I own or open it to the public. I say coyotes are here to stay but snearing in wintering areas has stopped and if I understand it right. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Dept. would allow it if the state would furnish statistics. In closing I would like to say that Maine is on the upper limits of the whittails range. We have O.V. Borialis subspices which are the largest and darkest of the 22 subspices. You can not stock pile deer in this state and never could. Old man winter will take care of that sooner or later. Gerry Lavine told me at a hearing in the mid 80,s that bucks only was just for a short time untill the deer herd comes back. Now after 25 years it is still here and the kill for this year that I read in the paper will be as low as 1971 or even worse. Something is not working. Time for a change. Fred Martineau ( Mastic scorer for 25 years , Master Reg. Maine guide, and deer hunter for over 40 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, I enjoyed you articles very much. The dept. deer management policy has not changed anything over the last 25 years. I argued that years ago. The management policy affects only unorganized townships. The cutting of deer yards has and will in the future keep the herd from rebounding. The department can do nothing in organized towns. I&#8217;ve seen yard after yard clear cut and the deer disappear. One yard area I used to hunt was where the town lines of Glenburn, Hudson and Kenduskeag meet. Another is Meadow brook bog in Andover. Both had large deer populations and big bucks. They both have been cut to death and the deer have gone with the trees. Land posting is also a large problem. Any deer permits are given to land owners with the idea of keeping thier land open to hunting. It doesn&#8217;t happen and there is no people or way to check on it. The third problem is Coyotes. It took the department about 20 years to agree with what we already knew. Coyotes kill strong and healthy deer. In the winter they kill and when the deer has frozen solid , they kill again without finishing the first one.  I say let the department manage all deer yards. ( you may even ask each hunter each year for a dollar to be used by the department to buy some of this land and manage it.  I say it&#8217;s ok to post around houses livestock etc. but people who own large holding and pay tree growth taxes are stealing our money because we have to pay the difference in the taxes and they are closing the woods off to the public. My suggestion is to tax them the same way I&#8217;m taxed for the land that I own or open it to the public. I say coyotes are here to stay but snearing in wintering areas has stopped and if I understand it right. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Dept. would allow it if the state would furnish statistics. In closing I would like to say that Maine is on the upper limits of the whittails range. We have O.V. Borialis subspices which are the largest and darkest of the 22 subspices. You can not stock pile deer in this state and never could. Old man winter will take care of that sooner or later. Gerry Lavine told me at a hearing in the mid 80,s that bucks only was just for a short time untill the deer herd comes back. Now after 25 years it is still here and the kill for this year that I read in the paper will be as low as 1971 or even worse. Something is not working. Time for a change. Fred Martineau ( Mastic scorer for 25 years , Master Reg. Maine guide, and deer hunter for over 40 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Paradis</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13609</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Paradis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 00:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13609</guid>
		<description>Tom,

Please do that.  I have many friends that believe your three articles are the best ones that have come along in quite some time and like myself are waiting for your proposed solutions.

One friend confided to me  that solutions do not matter because the discussions in the hunting camps about deer in Maine don&#039;t rely much on fact or accurate observations.  Just rehashing tired, worn, outdated and mostly untrue tidbits passed down from equally uninformed hunting companions.  All the while  huntable land and huntable deer populations both dwindle.

I have several former deer hunting companions that are still hunting with the worldview of a man in the 1960&#039;s.

Proposed solutions do matter.  I suspect what you write would be agreed to (at least in private) by every respectable wildlife biologist in the state.


Thanks,

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>Please do that.  I have many friends that believe your three articles are the best ones that have come along in quite some time and like myself are waiting for your proposed solutions.</p>
<p>One friend confided to me  that solutions do not matter because the discussions in the hunting camps about deer in Maine don&#8217;t rely much on fact or accurate observations.  Just rehashing tired, worn, outdated and mostly untrue tidbits passed down from equally uninformed hunting companions.  All the while  huntable land and huntable deer populations both dwindle.</p>
<p>I have several former deer hunting companions that are still hunting with the worldview of a man in the 1960&#8242;s.</p>
<p>Proposed solutions do matter.  I suspect what you write would be agreed to (at least in private) by every respectable wildlife biologist in the state.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Remington</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13608</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Remington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 22:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13608</guid>
		<description>No you haven&#039;t missed it because I haven&#039;t posted it yet. I was hoping to receive some information but I think I am being stood up because those sending information don&#039;t agree with my assessment to this point.

The short of it is, I will plod ahead anyway as I&#039;ve not seen anyone else offering much in the way of solutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No you haven&#8217;t missed it because I haven&#8217;t posted it yet. I was hoping to receive some information but I think I am being stood up because those sending information don&#8217;t agree with my assessment to this point.</p>
<p>The short of it is, I will plod ahead anyway as I&#8217;ve not seen anyone else offering much in the way of solutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Paradis</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2009/05/13/does-maine-have-a-deer-management-problem-part-iii/#comment-13607</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Paradis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 18:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=6331#comment-13607</guid>
		<description>Tom, did I miss &#039;Part IV&#039; or have you changed your mind in doing it? 

Part IV will deal with things we can do to help our deer herds. If we have healthy deer and low densities we have to figure out how to work within the parameters we are faced with and restore our deer populations. MDIFW does not have the option to do nothing about it. They are mandated to care for our deer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, did I miss &#8216;Part IV&#8217; or have you changed your mind in doing it? </p>
<p>Part IV will deal with things we can do to help our deer herds. If we have healthy deer and low densities we have to figure out how to work within the parameters we are faced with and restore our deer populations. MDIFW does not have the option to do nothing about it. They are mandated to care for our deer.</p>
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