Elk Rutting In Downtown Estes Park, Colorado

Lee

Tom

Thanks for the interesting post.

I was in Estes Park for one hour last month and missed it all. I was, however, able to get a picture of the elk statue.

Estes Park looks more dangerous to children than a rural bus stop in Idaho!

Greg Farber

That is Catron County New Mexico, and possibly Cascade Idaho, which built the safer type school bus waiting containers. Yes Barb it is a rare event, but it could happen, of course one child whacked by wolves is no big deal right ? It’s not like it’s going to happen every where every day is it. I don’t see what all the fuss is about these child molesters either, that’s a rare event as well.. It’s just nature right? Hell Russian Roulette ain’t so bad, lets play that game. What the hell do you care any how you’re just and old hard hearted mean bitch.. Lets roll the clock back and let your daughter play in the woods over here by my house, or lets send her walking into the Frank Church alone, into a couple holes I know, of course I couldn’t do it even with your brat, but obviously you’re stupid enough to do it with your kid right ? We should all be thankful this sick and twisted government only reintroduced Canadian wolves and not those Russian wolves, how fucking thoughtful of them.

Lee

While my kids were young I took them for walks in our woods in Montana and Maine, then had them find their way back home, My oldest daughter has a very good sense of direction which serves her well while elk hunting in central Idaho. The younger daughter is no slouch either. I am sure if there had been packs of wolves in the area at that time I would have kept us locked in the house. I didn’t even consider the threat from cougar, bear, and coyotes; we are so lucky to have survived the wilds of Montana, Idaho, and Maine.

The wolves in NW Montana arrived on their own four feet from Canada – they were not reintroduced. Primarily, they eat white-tailed deer.

A black-tailed buck walked through the dry pond area this morning.; sniffing the air.

Tom Remington

If you study some of the accounts of wolves and coyotes from years ago, there are accounts that support the idea that even though wolves inhabited the northwest regions of Montana, they would not have migrated much beyond that area. Some writings place as many as three, maybe even four, different “kinds” of wolves in the Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Dakotas, and into southern Canada, perhaps eastern Wash and Oregon. These accounts say that natural boundaries kept them separated.

In Maine there still remains few things to be too concerned with in the forest. Coyotes and bears probably and growing worse as both populations grow. The “Eastern Coyote” in Maine is a hybrid creature that is very large as western coyotes go but certainly smaller than Canadian gray wolves.

There are other strange events that can occur in Maine and other places as well, some we never think of. Ex: Several years ago now, the son of a big landowner and lumber mill owner in my home town of Bethel, was a senior in high school. After school one day, he decided to go out onto a family woodlot, located about a mile out of town, to do some work. He never returned.

His family found his car parked in an area off the main road a ways but could not find him. Search parties were formulated. In the morning I went and joined in. Deeper into the forest from the family woodlot was a large swamp area, very dense and difficult to navigate. Parties searched through there a minimum of I believe 4 times before his body was found.

Oddly enough, it was determined that what killed him was fear. Evidently near to where they found his chainsaw was a goshawk nest high in a tree. If you’ve never encountered such a thing, the hawks a medium in size as far as hawks go but extremely protective of their nests and become quite aggressive. It is believed that he agitated the hawk to the point it began attacking him.

Of course if he hadn’t panicked and simply left the area and/or got back into his car, he probably would have been ok. It is believed in his fear and panic, he took off running out through the woods and literally ran himself to death.

I guess that could qualify as a “Tales From the Maine Woods”.

Lee

There is an interesting geological feature, the Rocky Mountain Trench, on the west side of the Rockies which is nearly 1000 miles long. from northern BC well south to the Flathead area of Montana. It is occupied by several rivers, the Laird, Peace, Fraser, and Columbia. The Columbia and its tributary, the Kootenay, flow past each other a short distance apart one flowing north the other south. The Kootenat flows south into Montana, west into Idaho, then north into BC where it joins the Columbia. This area is a natural corridor for migration. There are certainly no natural barriers on the east side of the Rockies. So, it doesn’t appear to me that there are natural boundaries in the area that would keep the populations isolated.

http://www.blackbearblog.com Tom Remington

Theories abound and I can’t say that any have ever been proven. I’m not even suggesting that such theories are accurate. I suppose it simply raises a lot of questions, most of which nobody has the answers to.

The one “natural” boundary I failed to mention, which, if memory serves me correctly, I read about in a Smithsonian article (please don’t ask me to give you the link), is the one in which the different subspecies “respected” the ranges of each other to an extent.

I have also heard before of climate having an effect on certain subspecies. I believe one example given was that of the Canadian gray wolf, argued by some to be the largest of the wolves and some think was described by Teddy Roosevelt in some of his recollections of the outdoors. Some of the larger appearance of the Canadian gray wolf is due to a heavier, thicker fur coat. While it is probably obvious that the wolf sheds during warmer months etc., it is still believed that this played a role in how far south or down to lower elevations these bigger wolves went. Perhaps somewhat like other species, like the whitetail deer in how far north is consider their range.

The prairie wolves adapted to the plains, another entirely different climate, etc. etc. but didn’t venture into the areas Teddy Roosevelt described as being places where these huge wolves roamed and dominated the forests.

As I said, theories abound but it makes for good fodder for interesting discussion.

Lee

Tom
Could you give me the data that sugests that the wolves in northern Montana are isolated from those in Canada? A Smithonian article from years ago?

“Theories abound and I can’t say that any have ever been proven. I’m not even suggesting that such theories are accurate. I suppose it simply raises a lot of questions, most of which nobody has the answers to.”

I did not offer a theory, only information about the geogrphy of NW Montana,

Greg Farber

Why bother with that old out dated useless science, about all those subspecies of wolves, it is not credible, that’s old science. The new science fits the agenda better and sounds better and makes some people feel better about a lie, oooops I mean a new version of science. I KNOW Those hopes and changes again.. I completely understand.. That’s why the 43 year old endangered species act is old crap to..Lets toss it..

Lee

greg
You have no credibility.

Greg Farber

And elite power freaks manipulating politics and science do ? LMAO…

Greg Farber

Estes park just needs a Wolf pack and then the wolves kill Three or more elk a night” (not counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.) and soon enough Estes Park won’t have anymore elk either…

ar

Thanks for your no credibility, greg. Is it from not watching tv for 25 years?

http://www.blackbearblog.com Tom Remington

“If you study some of the accounts of wolves and coyotes from years ago, there are accounts that support the idea that even though wolves inhabited the northwest regions of Montana, they would not have migrated much beyond that area.”

That was the closest reference I made, at least that I’m aware of here, about wolves in northwestern Montana. I acknowledged the migration of wolves from Canada into the region without the assistance of man and reintroduction. So, I’m not sure where you got the notion that I said wolves in northern Montana were isolated from those in Canada.

I’m suggesting perhaps natural phenomena, i.e. natural boundaries, climate, geography, animal instincts, etc., created its own form of isolation and as the environmentalists like to use the term, then there was genetic diversity or connectivity throughout the ranges of each of the subspecies.

I have not attempted to define these boundaries or ranges only to suggest the once existed.

If man had decided not to introduce the Canadian gray wolf into Idaho and Yellowstone, it would be interesting to see, now some 14 years later, what would be occurring “naturally”.

Greg Farber

Wolves had been seen in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, 1940-1990. The wolf was naturally traveling through, a few spending the summers, they were seen.. They were protected, even appreciated.. This natural process was hi jacked, ruined, by so called science and environmentalism by interfering and altering the natural process, they destroy everything they touch.

Greg Farber

Yellow Science

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121433436381900681.html

Lee

Greg Stoner,
I read the Yellow Science article. Even if global warming is occurring as some believe, I don’t think that man has the will power or knowledge to change the course of events which would follow.

I also read a car with many, about 20, bumber stickers at a Safeway parking lot today. Most were, in my estimation, good and humerous. Some of the ones I remember are:
I hope to become as good a person as my Lab already thinks I am.

Humans are not the only animals on the planet, they just act like they are.

The moral majority is neither.

Stumps of mystery, an Oregon experience.

Goddess bless America.

Elk Rutting In Downtown Estes Park, Colorado

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