Comments on: How Pristine Were Our Ecosystems Before Western Exploration? http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration Black Bear Blog - The Politics of Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors. Protecting our American Heritage. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16868 Lee Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:33:12 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16868 Mike D Highway 12 is a scenic trip for sure. Don't miss the Lolo Motorway. It's easier and more economical to drive down than up; access it from Powell on the Lochsa. My trip there was in the mid 1980s and I spent 12 hours on that portion of the road. What a treat! Mike D
Highway 12 is a scenic trip for sure. Don’t miss the Lolo Motorway. It’s easier and more economical to drive down than up; access it from Powell on the Lochsa. My trip there was in the mid 1980s and I spent 12 hours on that portion of the road. What a treat!

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16867 Greg Farber Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:01:02 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16867 Actually a lot of the Southern part of the Centennial Trail is difficult to recognize. But I am certain it is older than 1986 because historically many parts of it can be traced back to the pioneer era and the gold rush camps.. And below the Nevada line we have the Jarbridge Range, then Wells, Elko, Montecello, and all that Salt by the Salt lake.. That would have been a good route for Wagons and mules, because there was water and wood.. But who knows. I heard old men from the Atanta logging and Mining days in the early 70s talking of a trail from Nevada to Canada, they called it and old Spanish route.. One thing about it, there sure are a lot of old mines along it, as well as those old Spanish ways of marking things, to old banks, or mines, the way they used to crop tree patches, or remove brush, or cut all the branches from certain sides of trees. Hell who knows, I wish I was 19 again and it was 1850, I'd go pull it with a string or die trying.. The old trail from Idaho City to the Lowman Stanley junction sure does not go the way of the established roads. That trail is a toughy to figure out if a person does not know what to look for.. And they pulled wagons over it.. I have done that entire route with horse and mule.. That old trail is visible along highway 21 from Lowman to Stanley.. Of course a 10 year old ladd listening to 70 year old mountain men while sitting on a camp chair, in the hot 1969 sun in the Primitive Area 10 miles up river above Grandjean could have misunderstood what they were teaching me about what their grandfathers told them.. Damn I love this country, I best go bust me some powder again tomorrow.. Actually a lot of the Southern part of the Centennial Trail is difficult to recognize. But I am certain it is older than 1986 because historically many parts of it can be traced back to the pioneer era and the gold rush camps.. And below the Nevada line we have the Jarbridge Range, then Wells, Elko, Montecello, and all that Salt by the Salt lake.. That would have been a good route for Wagons and mules, because there was water and wood.. But who knows.

I heard old men from the Atanta logging and Mining days in the early 70s talking of a trail from Nevada to Canada, they called it and old Spanish route.. One thing about it, there sure are a lot of old mines along it, as well as those old Spanish ways of marking things, to old banks, or mines, the way they used to crop tree patches, or remove brush, or cut all the branches from certain sides of trees. Hell who knows, I wish I was 19 again and it was 1850, I’d go pull it with a string or die trying..

The old trail from Idaho City to the Lowman Stanley junction sure does not go the way of the established roads. That trail is a toughy to figure out if a person does not know what to look for.. And they pulled wagons over it.. I have done that entire route with horse and mule.. That old trail is visible along highway 21 from Lowman to Stanley..

Of course a 10 year old ladd listening to 70 year old mountain men while sitting on a camp chair, in the hot 1969 sun in the Primitive Area 10 miles up river above Grandjean could have misunderstood what they were teaching me about what their grandfathers told them..

Damn I love this country, I best go bust me some powder again tomorrow..

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16866 Mike D. Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:44:32 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16866 Lee is correct about the Lolo Trail used by Nez Perce and L&C. I never heard of the other one. Also, I live in Oregon and have never driven Hwy 12, Lewiston to Missoula, but it's on my list of things to do someday. That entire area is drenched with history. It's like the Silk Road over the Khyber Pass. Lee is correct about the Lolo Trail used by Nez Perce and L&C. I never heard of the other one. Also, I live in Oregon and have never driven Hwy 12, Lewiston to Missoula, but it’s on my list of things to do someday. That entire area is drenched with history. It’s like the Silk Road over the Khyber Pass.

]]> By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16865 Lee Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:20:43 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16865 Greg, and I always thought that the Lolo trail went from Lolo Montana about 100 miles west to the Weippe Prairie in the central Clearwater River area and is perpendicular to the course of the Centenial trail. I have driven the Lolo motorway built by the CCC during the 1930s. It follows a high ridge north of the Lochsa River and highway 12. The native Americans in the Northwest used it to gain access to the buffolo in Montana. and the plains people to collect salmon in the Columbia. The Centenial Trail of which you speak appears to be a new trail promoted by Roger Williams and Syd Tate who were the first to select this route in 1986 and then promoted it for selection in 1990 for the centenial celebration. So apparently it is not an old indian trail but a modern trail for hikers. http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/centennialtrail/maps.cfm http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/centennialtrail/originators.cfm http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/lewisandclark/site4.htm Greg, and I always thought that the Lolo trail went from Lolo Montana about 100 miles west to the Weippe Prairie in the central Clearwater River area and is perpendicular to the course of the Centenial trail. I have driven the Lolo motorway built by the CCC during the 1930s. It follows a high ridge north of the Lochsa River and highway 12. The native Americans in the Northwest used it to gain access to the buffolo in Montana. and the plains people to collect salmon in the Columbia.

The Centenial Trail of which you speak appears to be a new trail promoted by Roger Williams and Syd Tate who were the first to select this route in 1986 and then promoted it for selection in 1990 for the centenial celebration. So apparently it is not an old indian trail but a modern trail for hikers.

http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/centennialtrail/maps.cfm

http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/centennialtrail/originators.cfm

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/lewisandclark/site4.htm

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16864 Greg Farber Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:28:02 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16864 Yep, Uncle Walt, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Dewey, All Communist Party Members. Yep, Uncle Walt, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Dewey, All Communist Party Members.

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16863 Greg Farber Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:25:26 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16863 It is kinda funny, we knew about the trail a lot longer than the 1986 " trail originators". http://idahocentennialtrail.blogspot.com/ It is kinda funny, we knew about the trail a lot longer than the 1986 ” trail originators”.

http://idahocentennialtrail.blogspot.com/

]]> By: Greg Farber http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16862 Greg Farber Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:15:03 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16862 I wonder how old the Lolo Trail really is ? That trail is really the Centennial trail, leaving Nevada at Three Creeks, Glens Ferry, Fairfeild, Sawtooth Wilderness, Stanley, Frank Church Wilderness, Elk City, Mullah, Leaves Idaho at British Colombia.. I have Traversed 60% of the trail.. I wonder how old the Lolo Trail really is ? That trail is really the Centennial trail, leaving Nevada at Three Creeks, Glens Ferry, Fairfeild, Sawtooth Wilderness, Stanley, Frank Church Wilderness, Elk City, Mullah, Leaves Idaho at British Colombia.. I have Traversed 60% of the trail..

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16861 Mike D. Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:50:37 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16861 Dewey? Wasn't he one of Donald Duck's nephews? Dewey? Wasn’t he one of Donald Duck’s nephews?

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16860 Mike D. Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:46:08 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16860 Lee, The Lolo Trail was a foot road. The Flatheads and Nez Perce obtained horses no more than 30 years before L&C came through. Prior to that they walked everywhere. The blowdown on the Lolo Trail did not impede travelers on foot, but it did cause problems for horses. The Lolo Trail is very ancient. The Corps of Discovery went off the ridge road on side trails that went down to the Lochsa River and dead-ended there. Lots of nice anthropogenic meadows along the river, but no through road in the canyon bottom. That's how and why they got hung up and had to eat their horses. When they came back that way a year later, they did not deviate from the main ridge road and so had no problems. Lee,

The Lolo Trail was a foot road. The Flatheads and Nez Perce obtained horses no more than 30 years before L&C came through. Prior to that they walked everywhere. The blowdown on the Lolo Trail did not impede travelers on foot, but it did cause problems for horses. The Lolo Trail is very ancient.

The Corps of Discovery went off the ridge road on side trails that went down to the Lochsa River and dead-ended there. Lots of nice anthropogenic meadows along the river, but no through road in the canyon bottom. That’s how and why they got hung up and had to eat their horses. When they came back that way a year later, they did not deviate from the main ridge road and so had no problems.

]]> By: Lee http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/03/how-pristine-where-our-ecosystems-before-western-exploration/#comment-16859 Lee Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:28:26 +0000 http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9226#comment-16859 Thomas Kovalicky Declaration Thomas Kovalicky Declaration

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