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	<title>Comments on: Synopsis Wolf February 7th 2010</title>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16901</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16901</guid>
		<description>The agenda driven most dumb ass quote of the day, coming from a guy who lives in a city 200+ miles from the Sawtooth Zone, where I.D.F.G. biologists have admitted wolf predation is the number one reason elk are in decline. After i might add, several people who actually live in this area have said this is happening since 2003..   Of course it is impossible to discuss this with Maughan because he will delete the comments of those who oppose him.. He reminds of a few Roman Catholics I know.

 &quot; wolves don’t destroy any property except a minor take of some livestock, they haven’t attacked or killed anyone, there is no proof they reduce elk and deer numbers over any broad area they inhabit. They are no more prone to diseases humans can get than any other carnivore. Opposition to them (Wolves) is mostly based on cultural tradition, political opportunism, and generational ignorance.  &quot;---Priest Maughan-- February 10, 2010..

Ralph, I completely disagree with you., As well Sir, Not only do I think you are and intentional deciever, you are also a coward.

A Well Known Case History of Wolf-Human Encounters in Alaska and Canada is a REALITY Mister Maughan !!

http://www.nina.no/archive/nina/PppBasePdf/oppdragsmelding/2002/731.pdf

http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/appendix-a-pavlov.pdf

http://rliv.com/wolf/DeathsByWolves.pdf

http://www.mexicanwolf.0catch.com/Human%20Toll%20articles/e-liite%202%20Hazaribagh%20wolves.pdf

http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/Geist_when-do-wolves-become-dangerous-to-humans.pdf

When the wolves finish the wipe outs of ungulates in Idaho, they will attack more livestock, and hiking will become more dangerous, and many wolves are going to be shot for attempting to come after people..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The agenda driven most dumb ass quote of the day, coming from a guy who lives in a city 200+ miles from the Sawtooth Zone, where I.D.F.G. biologists have admitted wolf predation is the number one reason elk are in decline. After i might add, several people who actually live in this area have said this is happening since 2003..   Of course it is impossible to discuss this with Maughan because he will delete the comments of those who oppose him.. He reminds of a few Roman Catholics I know.</p>
<p> &#8221; wolves don’t destroy any property except a minor take of some livestock, they haven’t attacked or killed anyone, there is no proof they reduce elk and deer numbers over any broad area they inhabit. They are no more prone to diseases humans can get than any other carnivore. Opposition to them (Wolves) is mostly based on cultural tradition, political opportunism, and generational ignorance.  &#8220;&#8212;Priest Maughan&#8211; February 10, 2010..</p>
<p>Ralph, I completely disagree with you., As well Sir, Not only do I think you are and intentional deciever, you are also a coward.</p>
<p>A Well Known Case History of Wolf-Human Encounters in Alaska and Canada is a REALITY Mister Maughan !!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nina.no/archive/nina/PppBasePdf/oppdragsmelding/2002/731.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nina.no/archive/nina/PppBasePdf/oppdragsmelding/2002/731.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/appendix-a-pavlov.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://wolfcrossing.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/appendix-a-pavlov.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://rliv.com/wolf/DeathsByWolves.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://rliv.com/wolf/DeathsByWolves.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.mexicanwolf.0catch.com/Human%20Toll%20articles/e-liite%202%20Hazaribagh%20wolves.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mexicanwolf.0catch.com/Human%20Toll%20articles/e-liite%202%20Hazaribagh%20wolves.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/Geist_when-do-wolves-become-dangerous-to-humans.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/Geist_when-do-wolves-become-dangerous-to-humans.pdf</a></p>
<p>When the wolves finish the wipe outs of ungulates in Idaho, they will attack more livestock, and hiking will become more dangerous, and many wolves are going to be shot for attempting to come after people..</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16900</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16900</guid>
		<description>The state agencies and the advocate groups are clouding the issue Geist has brought into the light.   While they all have and agenda obviously they are accusing Geist of not only being a wolf hater, but of having and agenda.  I believe the management these people wish to destroy kept the hydatid contained and the risks of human contamination low. The transferring of wild animals across states lines and reintroducing or just relocating them, and the expansion of predators is going to change that.  The conservation wreckers are hell bent with the forced implementation of their evolutionary theology upon all of us whether we want it or not..  These people are insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The state agencies and the advocate groups are clouding the issue Geist has brought into the light.   While they all have and agenda obviously they are accusing Geist of not only being a wolf hater, but of having and agenda.  I believe the management these people wish to destroy kept the hydatid contained and the risks of human contamination low. The transferring of wild animals across states lines and reintroducing or just relocating them, and the expansion of predators is going to change that.  The conservation wreckers are hell bent with the forced implementation of their evolutionary theology upon all of us whether we want it or not..  These people are insane.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16899</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16899</guid>
		<description>I do believe she accused me of not reading a while back. Hmmm.

Sheep causing the spread of hydatid ?  Sounds conspiratorial to me.. Those rotten sheep did it again...

I did process the elk, deer, myself, after I field cleaned them.  After I killed and field cleaned those beeves they were processed by a butcher, we did not waste the tongue, heart, liver, hide..

I doubt I have eaten two beeves in my lifetime.

I killed three Buffalo with my bow, I cleaned em, processed em, ate em, never noticed any cysts in them...

I&#039;m sticken with Val Geist..  One of the few HONEST  Professional Biologists
Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences  Involved in this epic mistake by deceivers and foolish believers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe she accused me of not reading a while back. Hmmm.</p>
<p>Sheep causing the spread of hydatid ?  Sounds conspiratorial to me.. Those rotten sheep did it again&#8230;</p>
<p>I did process the elk, deer, myself, after I field cleaned them.  After I killed and field cleaned those beeves they were processed by a butcher, we did not waste the tongue, heart, liver, hide..</p>
<p>I doubt I have eaten two beeves in my lifetime.</p>
<p>I killed three Buffalo with my bow, I cleaned em, processed em, ate em, never noticed any cysts in them&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sticken with Val Geist..  One of the few HONEST  Professional Biologists<br />
Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences  Involved in this epic mistake by deceivers and foolish believers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Remington</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16898</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Remington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16898</guid>
		<description>Evidently you must have missed this:

&quot;We can summarize matters pertaining to the presence of hydatid disease as follows. As expected, following some time after the spread of wolves, there was the entry of sylvatic hydatid Echinococcus granulosus disease into said wolf populations and associated prey. Earlier on fox tape worm, E. multilocularis had spread into the NW United States and I understand that it is still spreading. This dreaded parasite has been reported from foxes and coyotes. Since E. multilocularis has been reported from wolves in Europe, and since wolves may be avid “mousers”, opportunity permitting, it is likely that E. multulocularis will be reported in American wolves as well. As you are aware E. multilocularis cycles primarily between canids and rodents (mainly voles). Moreover, since the pastoral type of E. granulosus is found cycling between domestic sheep and dogs further south, it is likely that, in time, stray wolves will pick up this variant ofhydatid disease. Consequently, we expect wolves, eventually, to be carriers of sylvatic, pastoral and alveolar hydatid disease.

You may have noticed that there is some discrepancy in the accounts of hydatid disease emanating from wildlife agencies as opposed to accounts by clinicians&quot;

There are three variants of hydatid disease: pastoral, sylvatic and alveolar. All are variant strains and all are carried and spread in similar yet different ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidently you must have missed this:</p>
<p>&#8220;We can summarize matters pertaining to the presence of hydatid disease as follows. As expected, following some time after the spread of wolves, there was the entry of sylvatic hydatid Echinococcus granulosus disease into said wolf populations and associated prey. Earlier on fox tape worm, E. multilocularis had spread into the NW United States and I understand that it is still spreading. This dreaded parasite has been reported from foxes and coyotes. Since E. multilocularis has been reported from wolves in Europe, and since wolves may be avid “mousers”, opportunity permitting, it is likely that E. multulocularis will be reported in American wolves as well. As you are aware E. multilocularis cycles primarily between canids and rodents (mainly voles). Moreover, since the pastoral type of E. granulosus is found cycling between domestic sheep and dogs further south, it is likely that, in time, stray wolves will pick up this variant ofhydatid disease. Consequently, we expect wolves, eventually, to be carriers of sylvatic, pastoral and alveolar hydatid disease.</p>
<p>You may have noticed that there is some discrepancy in the accounts of hydatid disease emanating from wildlife agencies as opposed to accounts by clinicians&#8221;</p>
<p>There are three variants of hydatid disease: pastoral, sylvatic and alveolar. All are variant strains and all are carried and spread in similar yet different ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16897</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16897</guid>
		<description>Greg
I left wolves out because I was considering migrations in your area which is far removed from Canada - I am aware that N Idaho and NW Montana were repopulated by wolves moving south and that is why they were not part of the &quot;experimental  population&quot; reintroduction in central Idaho and Yellowstone.

I though you ate primarily wild game.  What is this 100+ beef butchering?  That is over twice the number of elk and deer you have processed.  And you don&#039;t utilize the tongue?  What a wasted taste, texture treat.  Bear liver is probably the best liver I have ever eaten and their fat makes fantastic pie crusts!  I once found flukes in an elk liver in NW Montana; preserved them in cognac my dad had brought from France.

Perhaps if you had cleaned sheep you would have come across more of these cysts.  It is very possible that the resident ungulates, both native and introduced, as alternate hosts, infected the reintroduced wolves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg<br />
I left wolves out because I was considering migrations in your area which is far removed from Canada &#8211; I am aware that N Idaho and NW Montana were repopulated by wolves moving south and that is why they were not part of the &#8220;experimental  population&#8221; reintroduction in central Idaho and Yellowstone.</p>
<p>I though you ate primarily wild game.  What is this 100+ beef butchering?  That is over twice the number of elk and deer you have processed.  And you don&#8217;t utilize the tongue?  What a wasted taste, texture treat.  Bear liver is probably the best liver I have ever eaten and their fat makes fantastic pie crusts!  I once found flukes in an elk liver in NW Montana; preserved them in cognac my dad had brought from France.</p>
<p>Perhaps if you had cleaned sheep you would have come across more of these cysts.  It is very possible that the resident ungulates, both native and introduced, as alternate hosts, infected the reintroduced wolves.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16896</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16896</guid>
		<description>Lee, why did you leave out wolves in that last sentence ?  Wolves have been coming and going from the northern border for decades to..  The Hydatid was probably here, but now it is going to be more prevalent isn&#039;t it ?

Why have we never seen it, my better half has not found one case in Idaho in ten years, yet..

I have cleaned 25 elk,  24 deer,  100+ beef,  a couple cougars, a couple bears, a coyote or two, and no disease, no cysts, I would have noticed as I look at the guts pretty closely.. I used the hearts and livers out of the ungulates..

Well, I did not see the Hydatid.  It has been found in the wolves, this first hunt, According to Val we are not seeing the full impact of this Hydatid yet..

We&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee, why did you leave out wolves in that last sentence ?  Wolves have been coming and going from the northern border for decades to..  The Hydatid was probably here, but now it is going to be more prevalent isn&#8217;t it ?</p>
<p>Why have we never seen it, my better half has not found one case in Idaho in ten years, yet..</p>
<p>I have cleaned 25 elk,  24 deer,  100+ beef,  a couple cougars, a couple bears, a coyote or two, and no disease, no cysts, I would have noticed as I look at the guts pretty closely.. I used the hearts and livers out of the ungulates..</p>
<p>Well, I did not see the Hydatid.  It has been found in the wolves, this first hunt, According to Val we are not seeing the full impact of this Hydatid yet..</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16895</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16895</guid>
		<description>Greg,
My premise was since this organism is found in many carnivores that live in the lower 48 besides wolves and that domestic sheep are the primary reservoir that the parasite most likely existed prior to the reintroduction of wolves.  I found information that supported this position.  I never mentioned a &quot;study comparison between Canada- Idaho and Argentina done by professionals&quot;.   if I were to find evidence that this disease was present in N Idaho would that be acceptable to you even though central Utah is closer to where you live and more similar in vegetation?  Or does the evidence have to come from your back yard - it quite possibly is there since you had a wolf from Canada as a pet.  Did it ever occur to you that if the parasite is in neighboring states it is likely to be in Idaho?   Is it aware of state lines?  Do sheep get moved across state lines?  Do elk, deer, coyotes, foxes, and cougar move between states?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,<br />
My premise was since this organism is found in many carnivores that live in the lower 48 besides wolves and that domestic sheep are the primary reservoir that the parasite most likely existed prior to the reintroduction of wolves.  I found information that supported this position.  I never mentioned a &#8220;study comparison between Canada- Idaho and Argentina done by professionals&#8221;.   if I were to find evidence that this disease was present in N Idaho would that be acceptable to you even though central Utah is closer to where you live and more similar in vegetation?  Or does the evidence have to come from your back yard &#8211; it quite possibly is there since you had a wolf from Canada as a pet.  Did it ever occur to you that if the parasite is in neighboring states it is likely to be in Idaho?   Is it aware of state lines?  Do sheep get moved across state lines?  Do elk, deer, coyotes, foxes, and cougar move between states?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16894</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16894</guid>
		<description>I know it is, but I learned it from you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it is, but I learned it from you.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16893</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16893</guid>
		<description>Greg
That is a narrow view!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg<br />
That is a narrow view!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Farber</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/02/08/synopsis-wolf-february-7th-2010/#comment-16892</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/?p=9260#comment-16892</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t interested in California or Utah, just Idaho.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t interested in California or Utah, just Idaho.</p>
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