Kaseman And Schafer Debate Measure 2, The Ban On High-Fence Hunting

Home > Kaseman And Schafer Debate Measure 2, The Ban On High-Fence Hunting

GPIM Radio Podcasting presents a 31-minute debate between Roger Kaseman, head of N. Dakotans for Fair Chase and Shaun Schafer, president of ND Deer Ranchers Association, on Measure 2. Voters will be asked to vote on this measure which is an attempt to ban shooting elk and deer in enclosures.

A good percentage of this broadcast is the taking of phone calls from listeners. If the representation of callers is any indication of how the vote will turn out, the Measure will not pass.

From my own perspective and feedback I have received over the years on this issue, it is a toss-up as to whether hunting on game ranches is a good thing or a bad thing. However, when you start telling American people what they can and can’t do with their lands and businesses, the overwhelming majority will defend those rights.

To listen to the podcast, click this link. It will take you to an archived page on the GPIM website. Simply press the play button.

Tom Remington

http://bluehorseoutfitters.com jim Richards

I don’t have a problem with anyone making money at elk and deer farming in fact that is what America is suppose to be about ( free enterprize) however I do know about high fence shooting I worked at one back in the eighties and I can tell you it is not hunting as I define the word. Animals such as elk and deer who are feed daily by people lose there fear of them and can be approach much easier than in the wild and besides if your in a confined area your not going anywhere anyway.
Fair chase to me is a animal free to wonder where it pleases without confinement.
My point is high fence really is not hunting it is shooting. So the only problem I have with high fence is when it is called hunting.
Greg Farber

If it were beef cattle running around in there we would never hear the crying about it. Those elk could be herded into trucks and hauled off to the processing plant and hit on the head with a hammer just like beef have been done for decades. Death is death, and chees burgers is cheese burgers.. If it were beef in the fenced inclosure the whining brats would be cheering the shooting of them. ” come shoot your own beef ” This has become bitch nation, liberals will bitch about anything. The truth is the government starts the damn rumor mill via the government controlled liar media and the nuts take off with it.. All to destroy independent free enterprize, open and free markets.
jes

Hell, Jim, how would you make all those “hunting” videos for the TV? LOL. I would bet 90% are made in those private enclosures….It’s getting to be that’s all there’s going to be…Not saying that’s all there is, since when that is the case, I will lay down my hunting and call it quits, but given the direction the country is going, someday, that will be all that is left!
Greg Farber

I agree Jes, but I think Tred Barta was really doing it in the great outdoors. But I for one for many years saw the negative impact these hunting shows were going to end up having on our very private and sacred tradition of hunter harvestor supplying the food stores for our consumption among the blind masses living in their concrete jungles and not in tune with nature much less reality.
http://bluehorseoutfitters.com jim Richards

You’re right Jes most are made in high fenced shooting facilitys that is why I don’t watch them. I too will give it up when and if that becomes the only why to take a deer or elk.
http://www.blackbearblog.com Tom Remington

Which brings up the point about the Marxists from North Dakota. If Measure 2 is sooo much about creating a bad image for hunters, why didn’t they include TV shows that only depict the killing of trophy animals? These shows are not about real hunting and by someone’s standards, trophy only hunting is detrimental to the species.

The difficulty here gets to be who draws the imaginary “ethical” line in the sand and who decides what that line will include and not include?

Jim you talk about feeding animals and them becoming “habituated” to humans, yet we fill up barrels full of crap for bears, sit in wait and shoot them. We put out other bait and climb up in a tree and ambush whatever game comes along. We grow food plots (glorified bait stations) so that when hunting season rolls around we can go sit in a blind or tree stand and take our pick. We use scent guard, camouflage, optics, electronic calls, high-powered rifles, trail cameras, etc. etc. etc. Why are any of these things ethical or not? Who decides.

Game laws are mostly derived because of 2 influences, public safety and management of the game. Yes, I am fully aware of the perversion of the money to sell game tags. Beyond the laws, how we hunt, for what we hunt for, the methods we employ, etc. is really a personal choice.

Beyond that, if I own a herd of elk in a fenced in pasture for the purpose of making a profit, there is little difference between hauling them off to slaughter and taking profit to let someone who wants to buy and elk shoot it.
http://bluehorseoutfitters.com jim Richards

Tom,
You make a good point however there is no gurantee that bear is coming to the bait or that deer is coming to the food plot. We are still dealing with wild and free ranging animals. And I think that is where the difference ls.
jes

It all depends on what your idea of hunting is really like…For instance, if I shot the animals I feed around my land, I wouldn’t call it hunting, it would be shooting, or killing one of those deer or turkeys that don’t know what it is to be hunted. But a friend’s boy who lives in the city, would think it was the greatest thing in the world…I’m in favor of letting them find out, but there are a lot of problems with high fence and high population densities that can or will effect the entire state…
Tom Remington

The first thing anyone should do in such a discussion is to separate out what is “hunting” and what is an agricultural business. No agricultural business is allowed to operate willy-nilly.

Rulon Jones opened a game ranch in Idaho a few years ago. I forget how many thousands of acres it was and he fenced it in. If memory serves me correctly the ridiculous Marxists doing everything they could to scare the masses, Jones had to double-fence his property. That was followed by the outrage that when Jones put up his fences, he fences in several wild animals, ie. elk, deer, moose, etc.

The state spent a lot of money and days on end on Jones high-fenced ranch, where there was no escape for those “trapped” animals trying to capture them and put them outside the fence. They couldn’t even find the damned animals.

I don’t think you could pay me any amount of money to go on a game ranch and hunt. I would first have to visit and actually see how the whole thing worked. I was pretty much raised a one man, one weapon, one woods, whatever God put in the woods kind of a hunter. I have no use for baiting, hunting with dogs, electronic calls, tree stands, blinds etc.. Although I did buy a ground blind a couple years ago to try.

I have been to ranches that offer hunting. Some are shooting just as you have described and some of them provide a very challenging hunt. I still would not choose to hunt on any of them. I like what I do and will stick with.

However, separating out the hunting from business, it’s still about choice and rights. That’s where I stand.
http://bluehorseoutfitters.com jim Richards

I agree that people should have the right to choose weather to shoot a animal in a fenced area or hunt one in the wild and i have no problem with it.
I don’t however agree with someone telling someone else what is right or wrong because it doesn’t suit them.
Having a opinion is fine but to force it on someone through the courts I don’t agree with.
Tom Remington

AGREED!!!
jes

Tom, you do bring up an interesting point, and one that is not usually addressed in high fence enclosures. And, in fact, it does rub me wrong. You mentioned the enclosure where the state tried or was successful at removing all the wild game within the enclosure. Well, I am finding many places have not bothered with that, and have simply fenced in all the wildlife that is within their borders. That rankles me, because, as you and I know, the state (public) owns those animals, and the chances are they are often as much the neighbors, or the public’s animals as well, in availability and appreciation…Some of these fences are miles and miles long, and the game that is fenced in is usually migratory, at least in availability of food sources, and they are never going to let these animals out to freedom, and to the availability of other hunters..as well as those who appreciate their beauty and grace.
Greg Farber

But the masses don’t mind herding up wild beeves in fenced in fields onto loading shoots and into trucks to have them hauled to the processing plant for slaughter so they can have their cheese burger, or t-bone. But the single dude with his rifle is some how ethically in the wrong because he rounds up one elk at jones facility, kills it, they butcher it for him, and off he goes to home with a box full of burgers and steaks. Beeves are wild to, their just not aware of being shot at like wild elk are..

Kaseman And Schafer Debate Measure 2, The Ban On High-Fence Hunting

Related Posts

Tom Remington

Related Sites

Archives
Categories