Open Thread – November 30, 2012

Please use this open thread to post your ideas, comments and information about issues not covered in articles published at the Black Bear Blog. Thank you.

RattlerRider

Govt. Documents Link Global Warming to Advanced Military Climate Modification Technology
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/11/30/govt-documents-link-global-warming-to-advanced-military-climate-modification-technology/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+pakalert+%28Pak+Alert+Press%29
RattlerRider

The WWPropagandists need a pay check again;

“Hailey-based conservation group Western Watersheds Project has joined a group of eight other wildlife advocacy groups fighting the removal of Wyoming gray wolves from federal protections.”

“Western Watersheds Project will fight for wolves until they are present in healthy numbers in all suitable habitats across the American West.”

That’s good, then wolves will be hunted all over the “American West.”

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

These guys give “whores” a bad name. They at least had to work for a living!

RattlerRider

Ken Cole and the rest of those numb nuts never produced anything, they always just took what others produced.

Bobalee

I once heard about a retired, in his 50s, plumber in Idaho who claimed
he had wages of $350,000 to $500,000 per year. Just pick $365,000 to make calculations easier; that is $1000 per day whether one is on the job or out horsing around in the wilderness. He got $42 per hour every hour of the year regardless of what he was doing.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Getting bitchy tonight I see.

Here is who you hang out with Barb, you’re a member, friends, and likely a moderator on Walph’s, who is a board member of Western Watersheds.

Let me see you comment about this: Meet Jon Marvel and the Western Watersheds Project.

This is an organization that talks a big game about saving the environment but in truth has never lifted a finger or raised a dollar to mitigate the environmental issues they claim to care so much about.

This is an organization that bills itself, according to its mission statement [1], as a group dedicated â€œto protect and restore western watersheds and wildlife through public education, public policy initiatives and litigationâ€

That last word â€œlitigationâ€ is the key, because in truth they are nothing more than a group of professional plaintiffs who have filed hundreds of lawsuits against the government and individuals to accomplish their goals. Between 2000 and 2009 they have filed 91 lawsuits and 31 appeals in Idaho alone and hundreds more throughout the West..

And this is an organization that has been funded in part with the hard-earned tax dollars of the American people to the tune of $1.2 million in Idaho Federal District courts alone by the abuse of the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA), which others have written about [2] on these pages

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2010/06/06/mustread-the-western-watershed-project-is-an-assault-on-family-ranches/
RattlerRider

Crooks and frauds, that’s all they are..
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Idaho Joe

Don’t cut timber on a windy day.

Stay out of the woods better listen to what I say.

Wind in the top will make them go
either way.
Bobalee

Not bitchy, Chandie, just stating the facts as presented on this site a few years ago. I admire your standing up for each other – rather like a wolf pack.

Yes WWP uses litigation in the courts to enforce the laws enacted by congress, and they frequently win as they should according to the laws. Why do you object to this?

Tell my why it is an abuse of the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA). WWP is a small organization bringing suit against the USA to enforce the laws ot the USA. Oh, I think I understand, you don’t like the laws that they are trying to have enforced. Somehow you feel that impinges on the “rights” of western cattle and sheep ranchers to use leased public lands with impunity.
Have you ever checked into the amount of money that comes from the federal government to Idaho compared to the taxes that Idahoans send to the feds? And you hate the “government”? Do you just want to take and not give? How would Idaho compete nationally with out the national highways and interstates?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Don’t have time to read this tonight Barb, company again.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Sorry, just got back in the house, had to go look at a friend’s new pickup trade in. Ha! You’re a crack up, I never got past this part!

Not bitchy, Chandie, just stating the facts as presented on this site a few years ago. I admire your standing up for each other – rather like a wolf pack.

LOL!

But, but BUT Barbie, wolfies are such cuddly, spiritual, predators, they balance ecosystems, scarf up all those diseased animals, and leave us rural class all the healthy animals, so we don’t get sick.

You love wolfies, they never NEVER gang up on anybody, they are so MUCH more ethical than that!!! Noble, majestic, creatures, and and AND, Barbie, they are so powerful, I mean, when I think about them, I lose all thought, emotions, any cognitive powers, because they are “deep breathing” like a God! Yes a god. People actually have religious experiences meditating about wolves.

yeah. lol
Bobalee

You certainly have a vivid imagination!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Just reiterating what I’ve noticed about the wolf freaks.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntmyc8Ia7hA Please watch again!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

I never got past this part in your comment. Tell my why it is an abuse of the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA). WWP is a small organization bringing suit against the USA to enforce the laws ot the USA.

Small organization? Are you kidding me????

Western Watersheds is huge, and listed as one of the “top” offenders of this “law” that was meant for small organizations, trying to do the right thing, and not create bogus science to achieve an agenda.

Today, U.S. Representative Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo.), Vice Chairman of the Congressional Western Caucus, and Senator John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), Chairman of the Senate Western Caucus jointly introduced the Government Litigation Savings Act, legislation that prevents abuse of the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA) by large environmental groups and others who frequently challenge the federal government in court.

The Government Litigation Savings Act, authored by Lummis, will reduce the taxpayer’s burden to pay for attorney’s fees. The legislation also returns EAJA to its original intent by instituting targeted reforms on who is eligible to receive EAJA reimbursements, limiting repeated lawsuits, and reinstating tracking and reporting requirements to make EAJA more transparent. Under the Government Litigation Savings Act, veterans, social security claimants, individuals and small businesses will still enjoy full access to EAJA funds. The bill has been endorsed by over 85 agriculture, sportsmen, recreation, and energy groups.

“When the government stopped tracking EAJA payments in 1995, it was a dream come true for radical environmental groups. Lack of oversight has fueled the fire for these groups to grind the work of land management and other federal agencies to a halt — and it does so on the taxpayer’s dime. Americans have unwittingly funded these obstructionist political agendas for far too long at the expense of individuals, small businesses, energy producers, farmers and ranchers who must pay out of their own pocket to defend the federal government against relentless litigation,” Lummis said. “This common sense legislation would help restore integrity to EAJA and return the program to the original intent of Congress.”

“For far too long, special interest groups have funded their anti-multiple use agenda with Americans’ hard earned taxpayer dollars,” said Barrasso. “It’s absolutely absurd that Washington pays outside groups to repeatedly sue our government. It’s time to halt the endless cycle of reckless lawsuits and fix this broken system. Our bill will protect taxpayer dollars and restore accountability and transparency.

Barb, As an educator you lose me past the first few sentences and I don’t even bother reading the rest of your post, You are that ineffective. I’ve already made my mind up about you a long time ago, you are one of the worst offenders of twisting the facts, and at your age you should be truly ashamed of yourself.

Make peace with God. Be tough with yourself, but gentle with your maker.
Bobalee

I consider these to be “huge” or large organizations and their approximate membership: National Rifle Association – 4.3 million; National Wildlife Federation – 4 million; Green Peace – 2.5 million; Sierra Club – 1.3 million; World Wildlife Fund – 1.2 million; Natural Resources Defense Council – 1.2 million; The Nature Conservancy – 1 million; National Audubon Society – 550,000; Wilderness Society – 300,000.

Why do you consider Western Watershed Project with 1400 members to be “huge”?
Idaho_Roper

The ‘laws’ they sue over, are frankly, unconstitutional. The court may have held them up, but that does not change that reality.

The ESA is in violation of so many of our rights, the average dumbed down middle school student could see it. The ‘clean water act’ is the same way.

The EAJA was never intended for multi million dollar law firms to use, so yes, it is very much abuse. It needs amended and put out of reach of ‘Orgs’ of any kind. It’s original intent was to give the little guy a chance of recourse if Uncle Sam tried to squash him.

As far as tax dollar out and in from Idaho:
1. The government has stolen over 63% of my state
2. They have squashed all industry of any meaning through the use and abuse of unconstitutional laws and regulations..

They themselves are responsible for the plight Idaho finds themselves in. But, I and many others would be very willing to turn back those federal dollars coming in under two conditions.
1. The land stolen is returned
2. The feds take their unconstitutional laws and stuff them where the sun doesn’t shine.

You simply can not create the problem and then whine that it cost you money.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Western Watersheds has their own lawyer too, Clinton appointed judge, John Wynmill.
RattlerRider

Yeah so what, I did contract work. rarely worked hourly, Time-material, in 2008 when I retired was $80.00 hourly. 25% mark up on parts. You wanna get into what the plumbing is worth in a 14,000 square foot home, including interior radiant heat? Exterior snow melt? $550,000, for one job, you wanna toss in five or seven, five to seven thousand square footers under contract while contracting the 14,000′ foot home and a 10,000′ foot home, service and repair calls, a couple commercial cafe jobs maybe a specialized shop for hot rods with radiant and bathroom with showers, kitchen sink… Yeah if you cannot knock down a measly $500,000 in one year, somethings wrong with the plumber doing the bidding. I did this for fifteen years a solo business operator, and for five years with a partner. So whats your point?? You did have one didn’t you?? You wanna buy $120,000 worth of top name high quality tools and give it a go??
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Ha! Giver her hell.
Bobalee

Chandie, how many houses of the size he describes are in rural Potlatch? How many people in the community bring home $1000 per day 24/7? Interesting that I didn’t even mention his name and he had an almost instantaneous response. Similar to my mention of a person who didn’t believe in batholith cirques. He takes immediate offense.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Nope never seen a 14,000 footer in my life, and hope I never have too. I hear your buddy Jon Marvel used to design, those huge multi-million dollar mansions around Hailey and Sun Valley, and originally he was an architect from back EAST.

So I’m trying to figure out your objective here, are you angry that RR did the plumbing contract work for these huge houses? Or the fact he got paid well for his services?

Did this money he was paid, come out of “my” tax dollars, or anyone else’s tax dollars? Did the money he earned help get recycled back into the local economy down there?

I am assuming RR does purchase gas, groceries, shop at all the local feed supply places, drug store, as well as buys many other things. Does RR pay taxes with the money he earns, property taxes, on top of spending it locally to support the economy and public schools?

Is he a criminal? Is there a particular reason he wasn’t supposed to be a plumber making a living? Would you rather have had him on food-stamps or unemployment?

Most of all did RR, hurt anybody, with his plumbing contract bids? Was RR a drain to your local economy? Was he trying to put the good people, that live in Idaho out of work, by being a plumber?

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to see here, other than he made a hell of a lot of money, more than I can ever imagine in a lifetime, on a house, bigger than our local grade school or high school are, but that is capitalism.

I find it ironic, that environmentalists think by running the cowboy off of the open range, BLM lands, they are saving habitat, when the regulating laws have created more sub-division of ranches and farmland than any other group I know, at the tax-payers expense, at the family ranchers and farmers, removing productive land out of the tax-base, that used to contribute to the economy, and destroying not only good productive land, with development, but our culture.

Jon Marvel and your buddies have the audacity to complain, that the pubic schools aren’t getting their funds, from the taxes of ranchers on open range. Do you realize our public schools used to run in the “black” when we had timber management up here on USFS lands in every county?

Our public school teachers in Potlatch, which I used to be one, now have taken pay-cuts for five years.

We have to have School Board levies every year, sometimes twice a year, and you know who pays for that? You’re taxed on the value of your property, the land owners take the biggest hit. My parents used to go broke paying the Moscow School District taxes from their farm.

If RR didn’t do the plumbing work on that 14,000 sq. foot mansion, somebody else would of.

Or is that what’s really bothering you Barb? Would you be here whining if Ertz was a plumber?
RattlerRider

Marvel built spec homes as well. He built small subdivisions with 1500-2200 square foot homes. He probably made money while he was fishing just like I done, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

I read that he designed them as an architect, back in 2009 when I started researching the wolf issue.

Got a great story for you about him up in Weipe, Idaho.
Idaho_Roper

I believe the failed point she was trying to make is that in her opinion, the gov’t should steal a large portion of your earnings as she obviously see’s it as more than you should be allowed. Typical communist drivel.

It is really too bad that we can not go back to a constitutional method of taxing, and with it the constitutional form of gov’t we were all told we had. But then again…….we already understand that was all a freaking lie too.

In my opinion, all teachers, no matter their position should be allotted a 600 sq. ft. home, $75.00 a week grocery allowance and a umbrella to keep them dry when they walk to the bus stop. Public employees have no right to earn excesses while they are living off the money others earned. That should help bring down the costs of education, and most teachers wouldn’t be the communist idiots they are if they actually had to live under it’s methodology.

The double standards these fools have are mind boggling to me. The regressives seem to live by the belief that what they earn is theirs and what you earn is theirs also.
RattlerRider

She’s also implying that I never did it, probably believes I’m to stupid to manage a business of my own making and have a $500,000 year, and like that is something to shout about in the plumbing industry, I was working alone, small potato’s. We’re all fools and liars according to her. She only posts here because she believes it irritates us, she is nothing but low mentality harassment, shame really. They send the dunce over to hassle us, they cannot stand up and have and honest and open discussion-debate, covering ALL of the evidences involved, no, much safer to hide behind censor, play hit man troll, and snap with a contradiction, reach for the vitriol and call this place, a dark hole with no escape.. Never occurs to them the dark hole they cannot escape is their philosophy that is embedded into their heads.
Idaho_Roper

I love that she posts here. It gives the outside world a view into the closed, hateful minds of gang green. She would be much better off staying behind the closed walls of wildlies where only one side of the argument is ever presented. But, she doesn’t have the self control to do that. Her hate for you, I, Tom, Chandie and the rest of the posters must run clear to her bone marrow, and she actually believes she is an intellectual superior, how laughable.

I am sure you are an evil bastard, 500k is far above the level they consider rich, and we all know how they hate the rich. Unless of course they are cretins like Marvel.

And this only gives more proof to the level of dumbed down this nation has been brought to. The shallow thinkers of the left actually believe that 250k are the rich…….only a life long non-producer could believe that.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

That’s true Barry.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

I thought it was interesting she wanted to know if people in Potlatch had houses that big. I didn’t see anywhere, where you were the owner or construction builder, or even architect of that mansion.

When I got in to the wolf debate spring of 2009, I couldn’t understand the demonizing and hatred for ranchers, or anybody that made their living off the land, but mainly the ranchers. Their ranches created open spaces, that produced revenue, without sub-dividing or asphalting the land, but they were in the sites of WWP.

That is when I called the ICA, and the man said, look up Taking Liberty, the Wildlands Project by Dr. Michael Coffeman. They want to steal the rancher’s land, and any rancher that owns land by USFS land they focus on first, as they steal more to nationalize everything.
RattlerRider

I’ve noticed these anti private property environ-mentalists always copy right pics of public property, all financial rights to the pic, thats funny. Anyone can walk up to vanity lakes and take a pic of them. “One of the Vanity Lakes. Copyright Ralph Maughan ” No capitalizing off that pic now, he wants all profits from it for himself.
TRemington

In Florida, if I go to a state park to take photos, I am asked what I intend to do with the photos and they explain that if I use any photos for profit, I must obtain a permit from the state. I’m sure everyone abides by those laws……right?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

I’m sure Ralph Maughan is a picture poacher.

Bobalee

I thought whores already had a bad name; and many still do work.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Depends on “who” you talk to. I “hang” out with many of the old loggers that used to be customers in Wallace, and they aren’t shy talking about it, or giving accolades to those women.

The joke growing up, and Barry can fill you in more since he is from there, is that the “working ladies” of Wallace, Idaho used to not only buy the Wallace football team uniforms, but funded
other charities.

It’s an interesting piece of history. I’ve read about Molly Be Damm, she was considered a heroine, as her and her “girls” saved miners during an epidemic, when the “good temperance ladies” wouldn’t put themselves into harm’s way. That is one reason Wallace, Idaho still has the Molly b’ Damm days, every summer in her memory, as well as interesting mining town historical trivia from the Silver Valley.

But I’m not going to judge those women, I’m not in their shoes. What I am going to say, is that Western Watersheds, isn’t fit to shine their shoes, I will tell you that.

I’m referring to the ladies that used to work, it may have been illegal, but they weren’t putting people out of work for an agenda, neither were they hurting the economies. They certainly weren’t hateful, from what I’ve been told about them.

Some of those ladies like Boat House Sal, were considered heroines for many reason.
Bobalee

Chandie, you are not listening to yourself.
You said “these guys give “whores” a BAD name. Perhaps your intent was that these guys give whores a GOOD name.

I have never had a bad feeling about the ladies that I heard about that lived in the mining district in northern Idaho, both my brothers had some fascinating tales to report from there.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

No, I’m not listening to you, whatever. I know what I meant, and I’m sure the other members of my pack did too. WWP is the lowest denominator of any human being on the ladder of humanity in my book. copy?
Bobalee

Chandie, I know that you don’t listen to anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Glad to hear that you are a member of a pack – and it supports what?
RattlerRider

Abundance for human consumption, food, water, farming, ranching, forest preserves, meats, wood, intrinsic metals, real education sharing all knowledge, no secrets, Biblical knowledge building strong moral character, no more murder in the womb for depopulation purposes, no more poisoning people through the food supply. A government recognizing Biblical Laws, and ignoring the traditions of men. Everything you’re against, yours is an anti Biblical anti Christian philosophy based in Faustian sciences, truth mixed with lies.
Bobalee

How come the only reference to “Faustian science” are found on this web site and are all authored by you, Greg?
alrem

It might be because folks are busy with reading and waking to it around us. You have no interest in some subjects so why are you so interested in slappin’ greg in the nuts every chance ya git?

Go read some of it for a change and wake up. Please!
RattlerRider

Today’s Envoriron-mentalists have a Faustian pact with the Club of Rome, The Tavistock Institute, the think tanks owned by the Aldobrandni Family, U.N.I.C.E.P. in Rome, where many U.N. environmental ideology’s originate, these ideas you’re all pushing are not your own. And they’re for the de-population of humanity, not of the posterity of those people pushing those evil Faustian agenda’s. Because those people, believe in their minds, with their Luciferian Doctrines, that they are serving Lucifer, and this is what Lucifer wants.. Anti Human resources scarcity, is the visible results of your chosen philosophy. The environment is just one of the methods they’re using at the moment to implement sustainable genocide against the populace of the world for the betterment of their posterity, themselves. They want it all, so they’ve orchestrated causes and effects to justify stealing it all, for themselves. This system everyone uses is their creation through their London based banking cartel, and what does most of your science philosophy come from?? The Royal Society of London, in cahoots with those same Mason’s running the banks, and the bankers have created mass addiction to play money, and materialism, they’ve been after this goal of owning the planet for centuries, now they’re very close to pulling it off. Do you think they have a special place in mind for you folks that are helping them, even though you’re ignorant of the facts surrounding these beliefs of theirs? Maybe you can be nice pets for them after they’ve euthanized 1/3rd of the worlds populations? They do state that they want to keep about 500,000 slaves around to do the chores, at least your ilks off spring might have jobs. So you never disprove anything here, you just mouth off and show us how ignorant you really are when it comes to world history and who’s who of the elite and what they believe in.. the Source of the environmentalist philosophy, is pure evil. Now you go prove it other wise and shut up until you do.
Bobalee

Chandie, Chandie; That’s enough repetition here.

“No, I’m not listening to you, whatever. I know what I meant, and I’m sure the other members of my pack did too.”

Well, I hope so, since you don’t communicate well with non-members of your “pack”.

“I can read people’s hearts, and they don’t have one, and that means they don’t have a soul”

It makes me feel much better knowing that you can read peoples hearts. Not many are gifted enough to be able to make that claim.
I prefer to try to read their minds.
The soul comment can be considered at another time. I don’t want to put too much on the table at once since you don’t like to consider multiple topics in one post.

Idaho_Roper

Yeah, when I heard about another frivolous wolf lawsuit……I knew ralph and gang had to be looking for more taxpayer dollars. While they bitch about the 1%, they sure are willing to pick their pockets for personal gain.

Their day is approaching, I say give them exactly what they are asking for. They will be the true victims of the collapse created by their own actions.

The education loan bomb is being exposed, when it goes off, their worshiped ‘higher education’ will implode just as the housing market did in that theft of wealth.

RattlerRider

Medical Tyranny is Here, and we can’t say we weren’t warned
http://www.oldthinkernews.com/2012/11/benjamin-rush-medical-freedom/

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Wait until you have to use your SSI, Medicare. The doctor charged me $900.00 for an epidural injection, but Medicare doesn’t pay near that. Doctors don’t like taking Medicare patients, and with Obamacare they won’t be able to afford it.

RattlerRider

Goodbye 401K, Goodbye IRA, Hello Argentina
http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2012/11/29/goodbye-401k-goodbye-ira-hello-argentina/
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

I’ve interviewed retired IDFG Game Warden Gene Eastman as well, his wife was on the phone, he was on speaker phone. The second reason for elk decline is a decline in cow numbers and the loss of calf production due to predation. A healthy herd can withstand bear and cougar predation. A stressed elk heard can be impacted by predation. Add a “non-essential” non-native pack-hunting extra large “buffalo wolf” from the Woods Buffalo Range in northern Alberta, then the decline in elk numbers can be rapid.

The small wolf I call the “native Idaho wolf” started showing up in 1976 after the 1080 poisoning program was halted. About the same year I saw the first set of wolf tracks on the North Fork river road. Bear hunters started seeing a pair of wolves in the late 70s in upper Kelly Creek. In the 1980s wolf sighting increased with wolves being seen near Woodland, around Pierce, Weippe and in the back country. Most sightings were singles or pairs.

A local hound hunter reported a pack of wolves (1980s) near Smith Ridge. I witnessed them howling in 1992. A grey and black wolf pair was seen by many folks around Weippe in the fields in the late 80s. I was able to video the black wolf on the Weippe Prairie hunting mice. Much of this information gathered on sightings and documented wolf tracks was shared with the Federal Fish and Wildlife and the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. The wolf video was also sent to the Federal Fish and Wildlife. The smaller “Idaho wolf” was not creating a problem with the public, wildlife or domestic stock. Retired IDFG Game Warden Gene Eastman

http://wolfclash.com/?p=45
RattlerRider

I’m busy cutting meats, but after somsai’s latest dumbass comment I decided to post this rebuttal; Of course he won’t read this, he obviously has attention deficit disorder, willful ignorance, and mental laziness.

It sure is odd, that most crimes that are committed get a lot of people ticked off, murder is horrible, and people will seek out those who murder and punish them, as they should. Serial killer pedophile criminals are another crime that gets the same result, these criminals usually childnap as well. We have rapists, bank robbers, car thieves, and thieves that steal everything they can get their hands on. We have drunk drivers, we have poachers, polluters, and of course the latest crime of terrorism, these crimes get the people in an uproar, but, you bring up the crime of conspiracy, and the room goes silent. Isn’t that amazing? One of the most committed crimes in history, causing the most damage to society’s done by secret society’s, and the room goes silent. Conspiracy is a dirty word, thats taboo, hush now, we don’t want to know about those devious dirty deeds done dirt cheap while we aren’t looking. Mention Conspiracy and the word Theorist gets tossed into the mix. Go into great detail concerning political sciences mixed with ocult and religions, back room deals brokered that concern large regions, and the people inhabiting those regions, mention that democracy has been thwarted and replaced with Monarchist fascism, a conspiracy, and the room goes silent, peoples brains quit working. They’ve been socially engineered by the conspirators to mock conspiracy, to mock the people they have not fooled with their countless deceptions and frauds. The conspirators knew people like myself would be a problem, thus they designed a method to counter those of us who see through their deceptions. They even flaunt their power over the weak minds, they put the truth in movies and shove it right in the faces of those they own, they’ve created a society that will fight to keep them under cover, protect them, from the likes of myself and others, that see through their evil genious designs that keep the flock they’re culling from waking up. It’s brilliant really, the evil genious of it all astounds us. The worst part of it all is the fact that it is in plain view, the best place to hide something, right out in plain sight. I know it so well I don’t bother calling it a conspiracy, I call it a comprehension issue. When we get where we’re going, I won’t be shocked like most who are sleep walking through life will be, I read the map, and the destination has been in plain sight the whole time, I’m on the right bus, that other bus for the sleepers is going no where fast. And what do we have, deathly silence. Hush now, the conspiracy of silence is taboo. The term “conspiracy theorist” came from Jesuit Priest Frederick Copleston SJ. Go research that clue. Frederick Charles Copleston, SJ, CBE (10 April 1907, Taunton, Somerset, England – 3 February 1994, London, England) was a Jesuit priest and historian of philosophy. Who rules this world? The Vatican-Soverign City-Politics and Religion, London-Soverign City, economics and finance, Washington D.C.-the Military Policeman operating the global inquisitions for the first two, 1,2,3, in that pecking order, they are the One World Government, they are leading many, to Great Tribulation.. Many will believe it, when they get there, in time. Shortly. Thus they, the conspirators, who most of you, fight to protect in one way or another, created a conspiracy theorist movement, to be mocked by you, to help keep you from knowing them. The real truth teachers of this world of lies are ignored, and the liars are held in high esteem.

The conspiracy arena was created by Jesuit soldier, Frederick Copleston SJ aiming to control all levels of intelligence and make sure only their enemies and lower servants get highlighted. This is why all suspicion has to be placed on the Torah-Israelite and the Protestant Reformation.

“THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST’S main goal should be directed toward filling-in all blank answers of curiosity, aroused by an irate mass, in their search for the creation of chaos. When one finds simple truth, and can be satisfied even by the most minimal facts, the search will be over, and the chaos will be eradicated.”
-Fr’ Frederick Copleston SJ

Frederick Copleston

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frederick Charles Copleston, SJ, CBE (10 April 1907, Taunton, Somerset, England – 3 February 1994, London, England) was a Jesuit priest and historian of philosophy.

Biography

Copleston’s family was Anglican (his uncle, Reginald Stephen Copleston, was a bishop of Calcutta), but he converted to Roman Catholicism while a pupil at Marlborough College, and became a Jesuit in 1930. He studied and later lectured at Heythrop College and, seeing the poor standard of philosophical teaching in seminaries, he was author of an influential nine-volume History of Philosophy (1946-75), which is highly respected.

Radio debates

He is well known for debating the existence of God with Bertrand Russell in a celebrated 1948 BBC broadcast; the following year he debated logical positivism and the meaningfulness of religious language with his friend the analytic philosopher A. J. Ayer.

Works

One of Copleston’s most significant contributions to modern philosophy was his work on the theories of St Thomas Aquinas. He attempted to clarify Aquinas’ Five Ways (in the Summa Theologica) by making a distinction between in fieri causes and in esse causes. By doing so Copleston makes clear that Aquinas wanted to put forth the concept of an omnipresent God rather than a being that could have disappeared after setting the chain of cause and effect into motion.

Later Life

From 1952, Copleston spent some of his teaching time at the Gregorian University in Rome, continuing to lecture at Heythrop until it joined the University of London system in 1970, whereupon he became the College Principal. After officially retiring in 1974 he continued to lecture overseas, especially at Santa Clara University in California. He was appointed a member of the British Academy in 1970 and CBE in 1993.

Quotes

Even if the actual systems of philosophy which have appeared in the philosophical thought of a given culture are historically conditioned, there may be ways of thought exemplified by past systems which remain a feature of a people’s mentality or cultural outlook.

If one refuses to sit down and make a move, you cannot be checkmated (in relation to Russell’s stubborn belief about the existence of the universe).

Bibliography

A History of Philosophy, vols. 1-9. IMAGE BOOKS 1993-1994
(Volume I: Greece and Rome: From the Pre-Socratics to Plotinus)
(Volume II: Medieval Philosophy: From Augustine to Duns Scotus)
(Volume III: Late Medieval and Renaissance Philosophy: Ockham, Francis Bacon, and the Beginning of the Modern World)
(Volume IV: Modern Philosophy: From Descartes to Leibniz)
(Volume V: Modern Philosophy: The British Philosophers from Hobbes to Hume)
(Volume VI: Modern Philosophy: From the French Enlightenment to Kant)
(Volume VII: Modern Philosophy: From the Post-Kantian Idealist to Marx, Kierkegaard, and Nietzsche)
(Volume VIII: Modern Philosophy: Empiricism, Idealism, and Pragmatism in Britain and America)
(Volume IX: Modern Philosophy: From the French Revolution to Sartre, Camus, and Levi-Strauss)
Schopenhauer: Philosopher of Pessimism, 1946 (reprinted London: Search Press, 1975.)
Aquinas. Penguin, 1955.
Contemporary Philosophy: Studies of Logical Positivism and Existentialism. Continuum, 1956.
Philosophies and Cultures. Oxford University Press, 1980. ISBN 0-19-213960-6
Religion and the One: Philosophies East and West Search Press, 1982. ISBN 0-85532-510-0

Here, this Jesuit, is openly telling us to be satisfied with any information, even if it is lies, just to calm us down. These Jesuits are monsters, deceivers, tricksters. This is clear proof, that the Jesuits are directing the truth movement, 9/11 truth, Astrotheology movement, the corrupted scientism movement, the evolutionary movement, the environmentalist movement and the new age movement, also the countless perverted Bibles movement.

They are sending people in circles trying to satisfy their brains. Scientifically!

alrem

thank you.

RattlerRider

Agenda 21 Revealing The Next U.S. Land Grab, The Trojan Horse, Heritage Areas Video.
http://beforeitsnews.com/environment/2012/11/agenda-21-revealing-the-next-u-s-land-grab-the-trojan-horse-heritage-areas-video-2455434.html
RattlerRider

Assange to RT: Entire nations intercepted online, key turned to totalitarian rule
http://rt.com/news/assange-internet-control-totalitarian-943/
RattlerRider

Roman Law
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Roman+Law
RattlerRider

The 9/11 Actors and Actresses
http://youtu.be/g-wZ0CwEYYo
RattlerRider

Titus 3:9 ~
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
RattlerRider

More good news for the masses, the fall of atheism-evolutionism draws nigh..
RattlerRider

CHARLES CHINIQUY – Fifty Years in the Church of Rome

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/eBooks/FIFTY_YEARS_IN_THE_CHURCH_OF_ROME.pdf
RattlerRider

The Doctrine of Discovery which is a PAPAL BULL

Of course the BIBLE say’s NO, do not be doing these things, so Christians following the real Christ do not do this; If they ignore SCRIPTURE they are listening to the anti christian Pope.

Papal Bulls of the 15th century gave “Christian” explorers the right to claim lands they “discovered” and lay claim to those lands for their “Christian” Monarchs. Any land that was not inhabited by “Christians” was available to be “discovered”, claimed, and exploited. If the “pagan” inhabitants could be converted, they might be spared. If not, they could be enslaved or killed.

The Truth About Christopher Columbus and 1492 – Another Roman Inquisition

http://youtu.be/4hoyv0bCyS8

“They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man [the Antichrist] that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof?” (Isa. 14:16-17).

“What mean ye that ye beat My people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts” (Isa. 3:15).

Don’t you know “whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Gal. 6:7)? And God will do to you manifold that which you have done to others… “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, saith the Lord,” “I will recompense” (Rom. 12:19, Heb. 10:30).
RattlerRider

Just add puppet

http://leavethecult.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/every-4-years.jpg
RattlerRider

Senate strips ‘indefinite detention’ for Americans from 2012 NDAA
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/30/senate-strips-indefinite-detention-from-2012-ndaa/
RattlerRider

Here you go, a man acts like an evolved animal, remember now, we’re equal with animals according to evolutionists, so why is everyone bothered by this normal animal behavior by an evolved manimal??He’s just doing what evolved manimals do for gawd sakes.

Zombie Tries To Eat Dog In Street 2012
http://youtu.be/ZueP9xIN7cw
RattlerRider

Must be true, Scientismists have declared it to be so;

North Korean Scientists Confirm That Unicorns Are Real
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120891-North-Korean-Scientists-Confirm-That-Unicorns-Are-Real?utm_source=googleplusone&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=all
alrem

Nanotechnology at work: Morgellon’s disease caused by Nanotechnology?

What could cure high technology’s disease but the original technology in plants, herbs growing in the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=12uwwIWYiQo

and here: http://thirdlensmedia.com/candidconservatives/morgellons-instant-cure/
alrem

Keep the profits; Hide the Cures.

For shame Pharmaceutical drugs require daily doses and upon “finding”
a miracle drug that would last longer would not only hamper further
earnings but in fact would be kept from public knowledge – at all cost.

If there were a drug that remained in the body for an extended period
of time and served as a means to many aliments and cures, it could
easily be deemed a miracle drug by comparison to today’s super-expensive
“remedies”. Tinctures defines pharmakia. More literally, Sorcery
(Webster’s).

A drug lasting two or three days would cut costs. One that lasted
longer would do miracles for most everyone in our so medicated society.
tsk tsk. Dream of a time when a drug would still be in tact after four
weeks. Not cocaine; it is out of the body in short enough fashion, an
employer cannot find it if they should test for drugs. Smack either.
Heroin leaves the body as fast; so, does it make sense, as it requires
more and more to kill pain and yet, it leaves the body in time for
Monday morning when Marijuana stays in the system (body) for 28 days
(four weeks)?

Failing a drug test establishes that it’s fine for the
Coke-head and the speed-freak to come to work Monday but not the
marijuana smoker, his medicine lasts too long; don’t hire him.

Medicinal properties within Marijuana are multiple. It’s sister
plant, Hemp, was once an industrial staple throughout our founding. To
the degree the founders, like Jefferson, grew extensive crops of hemp
and marijuana.

Why, with nano, bio-techs and robotics combining, “technology” should
ought to have had at least something of an indication of a
break-through in “cancer” “research” but the opposite seems to be in
place. As if the price of chemo-theropy drugs are not enough, selling
pink drinks to beg for more money from victims and friends of victims,
only makes more cents while sense has left the common man, or so it
seems.

View the propaganda put forth by the Big Pharma to keep you ailing,
without relief of common aches and pains and the 25,000 products derived
from Hemp vs. cancer causing chemo, petro-chemicals that kill cells.

The Best Marijuana Documentary (Canadian)

and here: http://thirdlensmedia.com/candidconservatives/hide-the-cure-keep-the-profits-murder-for-hire-doc/
RattlerRider

Coming from a blog that censors many, based on false presumptions that they will attack others that reply there with, ridicule, name calling, and vitriole, isn’t censoring others the same thing, the ultimate insult? Of course it is. Also notice that Gamblin lies to them, several of us were censored, not allowed to post, nor attend the wildlife summit. Notice that opinions are never in error, Immer stubbornly sticks with his/her opinions regardless of the sources of those opinions, who as I’ve proven, are Luciferian worshiping sources, subservient to the Jesuit General, as is all Masonry..

If you trace up Masonry, through all its Orders, till you come to the grand tip-top head Mason of the World, you will discover the dreaded individual and the General of the Society of Horus, that Black Pope, leader of society of the false Jesus.

He owns the Masonic British Royal Society of {London} Scientism, the origin of all evolutionary based biology and other scientific deceptions.

And we read;

“The Wealth of input, from either side of the equation on this blog distinguish it from others, where difference of opinion opens the individual to ridicule, name calling, and vitriole.” —Immer

“Your comment highlights a critically important point: the challenges to wildlife conservation are stark and growing. Success for conservation of our wildlife resources depends on broad, effective dialog among all citizens, regardless of ideological position in the dialog. If wildlife conservation needs, strategies and programs aren’t presented compellingly to all citizens, if the average voter doesn’t conclude that the modest personal sacrifies necessary to conserve our wildlife legacy are worth it to he or she – then wildlife conservation will fail. Open forums for dialog, respect and willingness to listen to all points of view are essential to building consensus for wildlife conservation.”—Mark Gamblin {IDFG} 12/1/12

Why do anti trapping-hunting-consumptive use, advocates want us to stop these practices, because they worship nature and animals, it’s a RELIGION, and like all religious zealots they want to convert everyone to their religion. And the surplus and abundance of wildlife doesn’t matter to them, they would still claim it’s being wiped out, the wild carnivores need it, and we should just evolve like them, smoke pot and lick lettuce, while bowing to Buddha..

What is consensus? It’s mob rule, 51 people in Wisconsin could decide that 49 people in Idaho could just starve to death for the greater good of the emotional feelings of the 51. If ten people corner Immer in the woods and decide to hang Immer by the neck from a tree, Immer is out voted and hung, that’s consensus. That’s mob rule, is mob rule ever wrong? YES, more often than naught, mob rule is wrong.

This people going on about open diplomacy is an insult at best, they’re fken kidding.

Immer Treue

Rattler,

Now that I’ve been hung in effigy…

Again, I’m not anti-hunting. I’ve got chickadees and downy woodpeckers on a deer carcass in near view. Anti-trapping, yes. And that’s not going to change. As far as my comment that you quoted, nothing untruthful about it. I’ve grown weary of anti-hunting droning and the thin skin of some not afraid to dish it out, but can’t take it when it comes their way.

The rare trip I take over here, you and Tom have given me a fair shake. I can’t ask for any more than that. You’re an intelligent individual. You know who and what I was referring to.

The point I wanted to make, and what I have attempted to do in the past is that I am someone who you will probably disagree with on many counts, and me with you, but I’m willing to listen, communicate, and not lob bombs your way. You’ve admitted as much, that getting angry and getting involved in “pissing” matches serves no good purpose.

Idaho_Roper

Anti-trapping……Why?
Do you see it as cruel or inhumane?

I would believe that you don’t like it because it is effective. Nature itself is cruel and inhumane. Your worshiped wolf being the foremost in cruel in it’s abilities to kill quickly. What is the true difference in an animal being held in a leg hold trap for a few days or an animal being chased down over the course of days, killed bite by bite?

You are simply placing inconsistent, emotionally based opinions that are contradiction to each other. After all, without trapping, we wouldn’t have this wolf problem we now face, but then again, I suspect you would allow an exemption if it meant dumping predators where they no longer belong. I suspect you would overlook your opposition if you could somehow place a higher purpose to what you otherwise label as ‘cruelty’. That is not anti-trapping, that is cherry picking.

I personally believe you are as anti hunting as any of the rest, you are just smart enough to realize that portraying the middle ground in public gives the separation from those that are not smart enough to not expose their true radicalism.

RattlerRider

CONsensus is to compromise ones beliefs, well being, the state of our wildlife resources is evidence of that. After this wolf {re} intro disaster created by them, while ignoring, censoring, blocking, name calling, treating us as if we are irrelevant, they want credibility, they want a consensus, they want to finish off hunting/trapping by majority mob rule. Isn’t it amazing seeing how they have reacted to being in the position we were in, watching our elk herds collapsing, watching hunts being canceled out. Now they’re whining about wolves being hunted and trapped because the resources the wolf needs to sustain that “viability” statewide and within the three states is in dire straights, and they don’t care, stop the wolf control measures at all costs is the motto. These people have blown what little credibility they had left.

Idaho_Roper

Well, they learned a little something about Idaho in the last election. They are not the mob here. I have log stated the fact that if wolves went on a ballot here, we would have no wolves. They try to claim otherwise, but they are so consumed in their own echo chamber they have lost touch with the real majority.

I can only imagine the mourning they and IDFG were feeling as they watched our state constitutional rights be secured by a large majority. I do believe they have been preaching to themselves so long that they actually began to believe themselves.

While IDFG made claims that hunting and trapping were not ‘popular’ and that we must let the non contributors to the table, that vote proved us correct, and them wrong.

They can say whatever they wish about Idaho, as far as I am concerned, they can pack it up and take their show to any of the other 49 states. It is very much time to return to the valid management we used for so long, and the predator worshipers can move on. If IDFG doesn’t see that reality, then they will be the next victims of the vote in this state.

It is very much time to get the initiatives on the ballot that remove non game from game. Let the non consumptive fund non game, or not. They never have, so I wouldn’t expect they to now. And return to surplus management paid for by the consumptive users that actually benefit all species. The infiltrators into the department need to be removed and sent packing, I am sure DoW or some other non profit law firm funded by tax dollars can find a position for them.

Immer Treue

I Roper,

In reverse order, I am not anti-hunting. Your false assumptions/beliefs are just that. At this time in my life, I do not hunt. It does not make me an anti-hunter. Got nothing to do with middle ground. A friend hunts my land, I help him butcher the deer, I get some of the meat in the deal. We’re both happy.

In return to your favorite cliche, cherry picking. Trapping, inhumane? In some respects, yes. More so in Idaho than here. In Idaho, I’m guessing the three day trap check is still in place. Here, it’s only one day. Humane is a bullet or arrow. Man has that choice when killing to make it humane. Traps equate to languishing and both physical and psychological torment. A wolf kills in the only way it can. Man has a choice.

Trapping is indiscriminate. It tries not to be, but by its very nature, can’t help but be so. I’m not saying all, but some trappers are also indiscriminate. Just recently a young trapper talked MPRof hanging his snares in deer paths(trails) in his excitement to get a wolf. Hanging snares in deer trails is against regulations. One might also “assume” illegal snare sets(without identification tags) will also be out there. I never had a problem with wolves while in the woods and BWCAW, but now I’m carrying tools in case my dog wanders into a trap or snare.
Please do not attempt to think for me, I can think for myself. I’m not a wolf worshipper. But I have thought, since my earliest recollections of animals, that wolves were fascinating. I’ve always been interested in them and have not jumped on the coat tails of the wolf “movement”.

alrem

I’m not understanding here, Immer, is psychological torment happening to the game, in your mind, your opinion, or is it fact?
Bobalee

Put yourself in a trap and come to your own conclusion as to the type of torment inflicted.
Idaho_Roper

Been caught by them a time or two. It really isn’t that bad. Yet when you compare the tolerance to pain that animals have compared to humans, your argument loses all validity….apples and oranges.

For your education…….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsj-2o0ux14&list=FLFXI9vTfwFuLMcU3t-x-MjA&index=135&feature=plpp_video
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Haha. We thought of the same video. That’s my Barry.
RattlerRider

Starve yourself until your muscles no longer function from cramping, and you cannot go to water any longer, and you must just lay down in some brush and wait for death.. Tell us how that feels, then you’ll experience what wild carnivores experience when they deplete their prey base because they were over populated causing scarcity.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Put yourself into this educational presentation put out by the same USFWS that used the exact live-leg hold traps to introduce wolves, “illegally” as well as introduce many predator species.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsj-2o0ux14&list=FLFXI9vTfwFuLMcU3t-x-MjA&index=135&feature=plpp_video

If this trap was fine for you hypocrites for 17 years to infest our states with wolves, why is it not permissible, or tolerated by the anti-hunting side, as management tool as well?
alrem

I did that already. I put myself in a trap commenting to fantastic beliefs in opinion. If I keep it up, the torment is self-inflicted.
Idaho_Roper

While they attempt to claim humans as nothing but evolved beasts, they want to hold those of us they disagree with to a higher standard. And of course, they impart human emotion onto animals.

I have come upon many an animal sound asleep while in a foot hold trap, but I digress. If they state it terrible, then it must be terrible. Unless of course they are using it to perpetuate their unwanted agenda, then of course, it’s a tool of science
Idaho_Roper

So……you are admitting to man being above the beasts?

Once again you attempt to persuade us to what all evidence states is otherwise. In the past you have admitted to your participation in Isle Royale and stood on that as if it gave you some sort of superiority. Your wolf pimping to your student has also been well discussed. So while you may claim to to not be riding the coat tail, you are definitely riding bandwagon.

And seriously…..you are trying to quantify trapping?

I rest my case.
Immer Treue

Roper,

You’re making stuff up again. I admitted that I spent 50 to 60 days on Isle Royale, divided between 4 or 5 trips. How much time have you spent there? What “participation” are you alluding to? Wolf pimping? Superiority? No, just a willingness to attempt to articulate my thoughts, ideas, opinions, and conclusions. Let’s go back to the quote that started this….”where difference of opinion leads to ridicule, name calling and vitriole.” We can include making things up. But then, that’s nothing new for you.

Yeah there’s no censorship here. Doesn’t need any because it’s a dead end, a black hole from which nothing escapes.

You’ve proven my point

Case closed!
RattlerRider

You’ve defined consensus, WE collectively have decided, against others not worthy of our consideration, that’s what censor does, because they simply will not concede to our views. In other words freedom of conscience isn’t good enough for you. None participation in a practice, isn’t good enough for you, you would force others through some court or other legislative body you controlled, to obey your conscience and ignore the freedoms of their own consciences, and at this point in time the evidences you’re relying upon are inconclusive, nothing beyond personal opinion. You’re so much like that Roman Church you despise, isn’t it amazing how their tyrannical dogma leaks into most philosophies, I wonders why..
RattlerRider

You’ve proven your own point; “Yeah there’s no censorship here. Doesn’t need any because it’s a dead end, a black hole from which nothing escapes.” Your angst against Roper has led you to throw us all under that bus.. So much for keeping oneself from resorting to not only an outright lie, but with ridicule, name calling and vitriole. A blackhole, and dead end? Pretty bold statement, since you’ve not studied the sources of our “black” thoughts; you must possess
omniscient powers, lol. All for the justification of an unAmerican practice, censorship, which is the ultimate dishonesty, and inhumane practice, that breeds hatred. Some of us of course hate the practice while forgiving the practitioners of such anti human nonsense. Consensus rigging via censor–something to be very proud of I’m sure.
Idaho_Roper

Oh Immer
Lest we forget comments made elsewhere, recently and in the past.
You and I have had several discussions pertaining to these issues, including your shoving wolves on your students. I have ‘made nothing up’, just pointing out some past points and my conclusions of them.

I do not believe I made an incorrect statement concerning the wolf bandwagon, while you may not be driving the wagon, you are definitely riding along.

The great thing is, even in the face of the overwhelming evidence, you are still trying to push the wolf; Isle Royale should be a concern to you as it is undermining your ideology of the fraud known as the balance of nature. While you and your ilk have chosen to ignore other examples such as Coronation Island, you all just keep doubling down on the same failed theory.

Wolves are not necessary in nature, they provide nothing that man can not replace. Can you admit to that truth?

The evidence all proves that, and thus, wolves really become nothing but a want, not a need. And since they are really nothing but a want, why are so many insistent on shoving them where they are not wanted?

If you really want to have a discussion, lets have it. But don’t expect me to just overlook untruths.
Bobalee

“Wolves are not necessary in nature”;
Nor is man:
7 billion and increasing
Idaho_Roper

Oh Barb, more of your anti-human hate and ignorance. Do you people ever stop for a moment and actually run the numbers on your insane beliefs?

Here are a few facts for you.

At the population density of Manhattan, the entire worlds population would easily fit into the state of Montana with 1/3 of the state left over.

If you bump that density to the city of San Francisco, the entire population would fit into Texas and California.

That is one hell of a lot of empty geography. But then again, when your true motivator is hate of your own species, why would you worry about those little details.
Bobalee

.Barry, I heard this same argument from RR, aka Greg Farber, years ago.

You said you had taken chemistry – than you should know what the number in a mole is.

Have you extrapolate the current population growth (human) into the future? 10, 100, 1000 years hense?
Idaho_Roper

To many variable to make that claim Barb. We are already seeing birth rates drop among many demographics as well as many other factors that can not be predicted that would play into it. We have heard from your ilk for three decades about the population bomb that has never went off.

The basic difference between you and I is that I do not see our own species as a cancer. Humans have brought many benefits, even if you can not admit to them.
Bobalee

I have never spoken to the benefits man has had for disease control for many humans. The apparent eradication of small pox was a great step forward. How many millions of native inhabitants of the western hemisphere were wiped out by that disease?

Most of the benefits of which you speak are for humans – not other Earth life forms

Now let us look at the benefits of our influence on animal populations – passenger pigeons, carolina parakeet, and Steller’s sea cow in North America come to my mind. Name one scarce animal or plant that has been saved from extinction without a lot of help from those concerned with species survival.

It is not that life forms are dying out – that has occurred for over a billion years. The important fact is the rate at which it is now occurring; you know how to use the internet resources – check it out. I am sure you won’t because you are one of those that rejects evolution.

Extinction is forever!
RattlerRider

For someone that is anti them evil humans you sure do underestimate the most evil humans amongst us;

Just google small pox as a weapon, almost 4 million hits..

Smallpox was first used as a biological weapon during the French and Indian Wars. And no doubt during the reductions of indigenous natives in all continents now called the America’s, specifically South American reductions..

What a brilliant way to justify vaccines for the small pox out break, release some small pox, let it spread, then rush in and cure it. Sounds like a great business model to me. Since we know the French Jesuits did it to the Indigenous Natives during those Indian Wars, why wouldn’t they do it to all other heretics that don’t believe in their religion? A great experiment that would get most people on board that vaccines are good, another control by fear process, better get them shots now, that virus or other disease boogeyman might get ya..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#Smallpox

An outbreak of weaponized smallpox occurred during testing in 1971. General Prof. Peter Burgasov, former Chief Sanitary Physician of the Soviet Army, and a senior researcher within the program of biological weapons described this incident:

If they were doing it, the u.s. gov was doing it to..

After all they did Nuke the Nevada Desert numerous times, and they knew what that fallout was going to do over the years..

That’s GOV Almighty for ya.
RattlerRider

Extinction is forever! No it isn’t, we just need another BIG BANG!!!! And it will accidently start all over again. Several billion years from now, cave monkeys will be digging around through our ruins and scratching their heads, tribal warfare will start again because of the disputes over ideas, maybe one tribe finds one of our golden statues and starts a religion, another tribe might be worshiping a big ole tree coming out of a big ole rock… hell maybe they’ll be another tribe with a two peckered billy goat that is god to them.. It’ll all just be evolutionary groundhog day over billions and billions of years. Come on, think large, if it happened once, it’ll happen again.. Oh crap, then the cave monkeys have sex with the two peckered billy goat, oh shit, a new skinless hermaphrodite tribe is born.. Oh gawd, not again..Then they sacrifice the two peckered billy goat, forever losing the missing link and causing confusion about the beginning’s of the skinless hermaphrodite’s who rule the re evolved planet in later centuries.. Don’t worry, it’ll all evolve again someday…
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Good God, I about spit out my coffee. That is funnier than shit!
alrem

Barbara!!! There are other things going on on planet earth. The “E” volution you mentioned is an impossibility.

Lately, science smashes electrons and discovers ten dimensions – at the cost of millions.
Odd, that in the 13th Century a reader of Genesis discovered the same thing…. Ten dimensions, four are knowable.
TRemington

GASP!! All day long I’ve been trying to imagine what you’d get if you crossed a twin-peckered goat with a cave monkey.
RattlerRider

Only Evolution Almighty knows the answer to that question, it might be an accident.. Everything is a gawd dang accident these days…It’ll all happen again, I’m sure of it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

It was a two pecker ed goat Tom, you’re slipping. lol
TRemington

Must be these new bifocals
RattlerRider

I knew it, I should have “copy righted” my two peckered goat thrillogy..
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Actually, you could be the next McManus.
Idaho_Roper

Oh how wonderful you must think you are. Extinction is a natural process that has been occurring since the beginning of time. It is not possible to eliminate extinction, now matter how much time and energy you waste trying to do it.

Of course I would never expect you to admit to that as the fallacy you can control it is the very foundation you regressives use to steal freedoms away from others.

Or perhaps you can account for the millions of extinctions that happened prior to man taking over this planet. Which of course, you cannot. Yet you will continue to villainize the human species over a delusional belief that it is actually happening at a higher rate, and of course humans are the responsible factor in that unprovable claim.

This planet is not a static place, the climate and the species that inhabit it are constantly changing, of course that truth becomes another useful tool for those who can somehow convince the masses that we can stop climate change or extinctions. Two of the most over used claims use by the evil people intent on shoving their anti-human agenda down the throat of the rest of the population.

I would have a lot more respect for your ilk if you all gathered together and offed yourselves in an example of your commitment to your supposed beliefs and dedication to bettering the planet. But of course, you always want someone else to take that path.

And BTW, when have “I” ever rejected evolution?

I actually believe that evolution is a real thing, but not to the extent of a single cell organism evolving into all species over time. That my dear, take a huge leap of faith that has never been even close to being proven. Your belief has more holes in it than the higher power hypothesis you love to bash. If one wishes to stand on science alone, you are not afforded the luxury of faith to fill the voids in your theory. Science demands unequivocal proof before it can state something factual. You simply cannot have it both ways.

I look at it like this. If the bible is false, and you lived your life by it, in the end you have lost nothing, and were probably a better person for it.

If it is true, you will be awful glad you lived by it. The only people taking the real risk are those who choose to ignore it. That, seems illogical to me.
RattlerRider

Lol, it’s not an argument, it’s fact.
RattlerRider

The evolutionism theory, once we understand the rest of that religion, coming from the words of the Royal Society of London, atheist free masons subservient to the Highest mason on earth, the Superior General, man evolves into a reborn Eden, that which man lost, their wilderness, their imaginary petting zoo, where they ooh and ah over creation, soothe themselves by petting wild beasts intellectually, they even go so far as to say, perfection is a meatless diet, so apparently even Immer is not fully evolved into that paradigm yet either, as Immer stated, has a friend hunt Immer’s property, and Immer partakes of the meat, so proving to me at least that, Immer is not yet fully evolved into that religion of evolutionism. Which is always my point with Immer, why is it I know more about Immer’s opinions based on the philosophy of others… the Source, they over look.. Unfortunately. And they call us a dark hole with no way out? I beg to differ.. But then Immer, probably fiftyish, that being a helluva lot of mind control indoctrination into a false philosophy for anyone to overcome, which takes great courage. I did it, and I still feel defensive of my old dogma, much like Immer’s. But, wrong is wrong.
Idaho_Roper

I do understand what you are saying. I too struggle with the realities of the red pill. It is hard to undo 3 decades of indoctrination, even in the face of overwhelming evidence in contradiction of that indoctrination. It is a process for sure. I can’t imagine the difficulties of someone who was completely consumed in the first place.
wolf moderate

Immer,

I attended the wolf trapping class and I’m almost positive that you can hang snares in deer trails.
wolf moderate

Trappers just need a diverter and a break-away device. As far as I can tell, it’s legal and ethical to place snares/traps in game trails.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/rules/wolfTrapRules.pdf

If the trapper knows what he is doing, it is actually pretty easy to “catch” only what you are going for. The size of the snare, the break-away pressure etc…all allows animals to either slip there neck back through the snare or break out. Also, the height of the set minimizes incidental take.

My brother and I were going to snare wolves last year because we knew where they were and the hides sell for over $300. It’s a way to get out into the woods and pay for the gas etc…But my good friend, who is an indian (not w/ dot in forehead), Native American, First Nations people, or whatever they want to be called in this Politically Correct world we live in today talked us out of it. For some reason wolves are sacred to indians and since I live on a reservation, figured I’d respect there beliefs.

I personally see nothing wrong with it though. It’s cheaper than paying some government trapper to do what private trappers will PAY to do.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

That’s interesting as I know a CDA member that traps wolves.
Immer Treue

Wolf Moderate,

Perhaps out West. Page 46 of MN Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook.

Use of Snares

4th bullet point down

Snares may not be set in deer trails.
wolf moderate

Ok thanks for the information. I tend not to follow things in states that I do not reside in. It’s best to let the citizens of the state make up the rules

Good night.
Idaho_Roper

Very interesting. Another convoluted ‘regulation’. Concerning trails, can you specifically identify how you would label a specific trail a “deer trail”?

Is that ‘any’ trail a deer has ever walked on? Or could have ‘possibly’ walked on?
Does there have to be specific evidence of it’s use by deer? Or evidence that it was ‘created’ by deer? Or that it’s major user are deer? Is it’s use by any other species change it’s designation? If a human walks on it, does that now make it a ‘hiking’ trail? Or does it still maintain it’s identification as a ‘deer’ trail? And under what specific parameters?

Without specific legal definition, it is a moot point and unenforceable.

I would love further explanation as to how they legally identify a deer trail.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsj-2o0ux14&list=FLFXI9vTfwFuLMcU3t-x-MjA&index=135&feature=plpp_video Again, educate yourself about a management tool used by State Game Agencies and the USFWS.

RattlerRider

We’ve all been hung in effigy by the sources of your own philosophy and that is a fact, and will always be my point, until that day comes that you finally see that, stop denying that, and recognize this is all just a distraction. If you awaken in a time known as a Great Tribulation, in the near future, I would hope you’d then find the courage to finally say no, to finally do whats right. During Jacobs trouble, they will make us effigy’s for real, no more pretending, lusting after the blood of this lost society.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Immer Treue, Please educate yourself about the live-leg-hold trap! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsj-2o0ux14&list=FLFXI9vTfwFuLMcU3t-x-MjA&index=135&feature=plpp_video

If you are anti-trapping you are anti-trapping for biologists as well as for predator management.

Predator management is necessary for game management. No predator management no healthy elk herds for sportsmen and the Idaho rural families that have funded the Idaho Fish and Game, the agency they founded in 1938.

It’s too bad IDFG has been infiltrated with greenie radicals like Jon Rachael and Mark Gamblin, Michele Beucler, Greg Servheen, Jerome Hansen, Mike Keck, Sharon Keifer. Virgil, Moore, Jim Unsworth, the Nadeau Gang etc.

Idahoans passed HJR-002, the Right to Hunt, Fish, and Trap, to be added to our Idaho State Constitution.

Wolf introduction will go down in history, and the greatest disaster to our wildlife in the history of the United States, since the inception of the Pittman Robertson excise taxes, and the establishment of the North American Model of Hunting.

RattlerRider

Ya know, I hope so, then a bunch of mentally compromised u.s. serfs will have to wake up;

WW3 IMMINENT?: BREAKING! Canada cuts all ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders diplomats home within 5 days
http://www.secretsofthefed.com/ww3-imminent-breaking-canada-cuts-all-ties-with-iran-closes-embassy-orders-diplomats-home-within-5-days/
RattlerRider

Honesty in government;

CIA-Sponsored Trolls Monitor Internet & Interact With Users to Discredit Factual Information
http://occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-internet-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/
RattlerRider

Oh-no, some wolves might have been trapped in a crack in the ground and made to say ouch that hurts..

Earthquake Registering 5.9 Magnitude Shakes up Alaska Peninsula and Kodiak Island
http://alaska-native-news.com/general-news/7248-earthquake-registering-5-9-magnitude-shakes-up-alaska-peninsula-and-kodiak-island.html
wolf moderate

I’ve been gearing u for a zombie apocalypse, but it appears that vampires could be what hits us first…Not talking about D.C politicians either.

http://news.yahoo.com/vampire-loose-serbia-140736133.html
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

My comment on an anti-trapping site. They removed it of course!

They deleted my comment: l l Explain to me why this is cruel, when the leg-hold trap was used to trap and relocate the illegal Canadian wolves to inject every available elk habitat in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming with them? Wolves have been trapped excessively by the USFWS, IDFG biologists and DOW, to “study, pet, caress, kiss, collar, take blood samples, and other tissue samples, and re-release. This has been going on over 17 years with the wolf program, not one word from you hypocrites, the emotionally intoxicated urbanites. Fact is the USFWS and State Game Agencies trap release otters, beavers, foxes, wolves, and many other animals to restore population of predators. The leg-hold trap is humane, does not crush or harm the animal. Get educated! It’s now part of the Idaho State Constitution, to preserve our right to Hunt, Fish, and Trap in Idaho for ever! This is what a trapped animal looks like, it’s waiting for the biologist to re-release it it after they sedate it to collar it, take tissue, blood DNA samples to send off to forensic USFWS/IDFG labs, or relocate. This is how calm the wolves were when DOW/USFWS/ IDFG would find a wolf, so they could put a collar on it, and re-release it again back in some other rancher’s back yard. I had a pack of wolves trapped and relocated behind my house without my knowledge in 2007. They were predating on cattle over the hill from my house immediately, and killing deer in my neighbors driveways. I only live 10 miles north of Potlatch. For predator management, the licensed trapper in Idaho, has to legally take a trapping course. They learn how to set the same leg-hold traps used to introduce the largest sub-species upon us the Yukon wolf, C. l. occidentalis. For predator management, the trapper would simply come up to this coyote, and place a clean accurate shot into it’s head, and the predator is dispatched immediately. This prevents the over-population of predators that have destroyed our once famous big game herds in the NRM states.

Destroying the Myth of the Live- Leg-Hold Trap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsj-2o0ux14&list=FLFXI9vTfwFuLMcU3t-x-MjA&index=135&feature=plpp_video
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

This is how sick the pro-wolf side is. Larry is Native American, made a trapping video as well, and this is what this POS, had to say to Larry, my friend to day, that lives on the Nez Pearce Rez.

Also believed to be William Huard.
RattlerRider

I released my Lab last winter, I had a to go about 100 yards to get to him, then I let him out, he went right back to enjoying his hike.

Dog is fine after his trap tussle
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/foothold-trap-dogs-best-friend-v17f9q1-177114781.html
RattlerRider

Immer;
I’m not into your SOCIOPOLITICAL UTOPIANISM, nor am I willing to force you to live by my rules, as you would have done to us, you censor us, because our religions and beliefs are a dark hole, yet you would force your religion upon us, to what extent are you willing to win this battle, would a consensus be satisfactory for you if it entailed a long ditch for us? You’d best be careful, someday you may need to make that choice, if so, I wonder where you’d be standing; The evidence of your philosophy is clear; PERPETUAL WAR FOR PERPETUAL EVOLUTION; no peace ever!! Even genocide brings no peace for those who dare use it, it is the ultimate end result of evolutionism, and it is the ultimate dark failure of humanity. When that day arrives in this country, will you discard your dark philosophy, or will you rejoice at the cleansing of us heretics, lying in our blood in that dark hole with no escape? They’re leading those younger than us to that place Immer, why did you help them?

“There are four modes of philosophizing: the first with reason alone, the second with sense alone, the third with reason and then sense, and the fourth beginning with sense and ending with reason. The first is the worst, because from it we know what we would like to be, not what is. The third is bad because we many times distort what is into what we would like, rather than adjusting what we would like to what is. The second is true but crude, permitting us to know little and that rather of things than of their causes. The fourth is the best we can have in this miserable life.” (Qutd. in “How the Venetians Took Over England and Created Freemasonry”)

This–the evolution of man into superman–was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is, not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality. And this is a definite science, a royal art, which it is possible for each of us to put into practice; whilst to join the Craft for any other purpose than to study and pursue this science is to misunderstand its meaning. (Wilmshurst 47; emphasis added)

Man is a god in the making, and as in the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter’s wheel, he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood, and joins that throng of Master Masons, who in their robe of Blue and Gold, are seeking to dispel the darkness of night with the triple light of the Masonic Lodge. (54-55)

Nineteenth- and early twentieth-century thought teems with time-bound emergent deities. Scores of thinkers preached some sort of faith in what is potential in time, in place of the traditional Christian and mystical faith in a power outside of time. Hegel’s Weltgeist, Comte’s Humanite, Spencer’s organismic humanity inevitably improving itself by the laws of evolution, Nietzsche’s doctrine of superhumanity, the conception of a finite God given currency by J.S. Mill, Hastings Rashdall, and William James, the vitalism of Bergson and Shaw, the emergent evolutionism of Samuel Alexander and Lloyd Morgan, the theories of divine immanence in the liberal movement in Protestant theology, and du Nouy’s telefinalism – all are exhibits in evidence of the influence chiefly of evolutionary thinking, both before and after Darwin, in Western intellectual history. The faith of progress itself – especially the idea of progress as built into the evolutionary scheme of things – is in every way the psychological equivalent of religion (Wagar, pp. 106 – 7, 1961).

Reason, working upon nature, would enhance the quality of life for each and every one of the Enlightened. The Atheist philosopher Condorcet preached the doctrine of a coming Utopia, where indefinite progress would bring forth a “natural salvation” of plenty and immortality. Progress held that since the universe was knowable, enlightened man could become the subject of history rather than its object. Mankind could fashion nature to its wishes; the efficacy in shaping the natural order was limited only by time and the sheer limits, if any, of reason. (Goeringer, no pagination)

In order for this to work, a lot of people have to die..
RattlerRider

Japanese tunnel leading to Mt. Fuji collapses, 7 missing
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/japanese-tunnel-leading-to-mt-fuji-collapses-7-missing/
RattlerRider

Feinstein’s a terrorist, study up on her war machine investments, and building contracts in occupied Iraq and Aphsmackistan. attained by the use of fully automatic weapons, canons and bombs, drone weaponry against people living on their own land in their own country, she is an operative for the Pope, during this 12th Crusade for the Temple Mount Property, Mnt Moriah. Remember, their mentality is 100 dead villagers for the killing of one bad guy hiding in there midst is justified.. And she wants to disarm you all..

Senator Feinstein’s Assault Weapons Ban: Give Us Your Guns, No Exceptions

http://www.inquisitr.com/411099/senator-feinsteins-assault-weapons-ban-give-us-your-guns-no-exceptions/
RattlerRider

10 Ways to Prepare Your Community for Economic Collapse
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/10-ways-to-prepare-your-community-for.html
RattlerRider

If Every U.S. State Declared War Against the Others, Which Would Win?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2012/11/27/civil_war_who_would_come_out_on_top_if_the_united_states_all_declared_war.html
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Got this observation sent to me by somebody that lives near YNP.

There are no elk in the Feed Grounds at the National Elk Refuge yet and it is December 3, 2012. The moose are all but gone and the Wolves are making kills of dogs by Pinedale and around Jackson; Is it going to take someones kid being hauled off for us to get rid of these packs of ravenous dogs?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

A good comment; I’ve had old timers tell me if you wound a wolf it will get taken out by the pack. I’ve never experienced this myself, in fact all the years I’ve lived in NW Montana I’ve never been put in a position of having to kill one but it would make sense. I don’t care for the way they lay waste to anything in their path however nor do I like their blatant brutality. Animal rights activists call hunters blood thirsty but I don’t see any comparison to their sacred wolf. This animal is a calculating and cruel killing machine. They make sport out of and enjoy suffering as apposed to sportsmen, who go to great lengths to alleviate it. I can’t quite figure out what to call the mental illness these loons have acquired, but their thought patterns defy all pragmatic thought. Some of it is no doubt ignorance but it seems like the crazies are RUNNING the asylum and they’ve created their own pagan religion where the “human race” is the enemy and they are not part of it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

More good news for Idaho beef producers! Idaho beef producers say potential import changes in Japan could increase profits

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS December 02, 2012

BOISE, Idaho — A possible change in Japanese import policy concerning beef has the potential to create more income for Idaho beef producers, officials in Idaho said.

Since 2005, Japan has allowed into the country only beef from animals that were less than 20 months old when slaughtered to protect against bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or Mad Cow Disease. But in October a Japanese government subcommittee forwarded recommendations altering the restrictions to allow beef from cattle younger than 30 months old.

Jay Theiler, executive director of Boise-based Agri Beef Co., said the additional 10 months for growing beef would create more opportunities for selling high-quality cuts as well as the cuts that have greater value in Japan.

“What it does is a lot more cattle will qualify for export, because there is a lot less cattle that are available at that young of age,” Theiler said.

Continued:
http://tinyurl.com/ctr8hfh
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

ALABAMA TAKES A STAND AGAINST SOROS-BACKED ‘AGENDA 21′

Posted on June 8, 2012 at 3:05pm by Becket Adams

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Although the U.N.’s George Soros-backed plan for “Sustainable Development” (also known as “Agenda 21”) seems to have gone largely unnoticed by many Americans, the shadowy, backdoor attack on personal property rights didn’t slip past the people of Alabama.

“Alabama recently passed Senate Bill 477 unanimously in both of its houses. The legislation bars the taking of private property in Alabama without due process,” Investor’s Business Daily reports.

The bill specifically states the following:

Alabama and all political subdivisions may not adopt or implement policy recommendations that deliberately or inadvertently infringe or restrict private property rights without due process, as may be required by policy recommendations originating in or traceable to Agenda 21.

But let’s back up for a bit and talk more about “Agenda 21.” If you haven’t heard of it, you owe it to yourself to read up on it. Simply put, it’s an international initiative that overrides personal property rights all in the name of the environment and “sustainability.”

Here’s a good rundown via The Blaze’s Mike Opelka:

Agenda 21 is a two-decade old, grand plan for global ’Sustainable Development,’ brought to you from the United Nations. George H.W. Bush (and 177 other world leaders) agreed to it back in 1992, and in 1995, Bill Clinton signed Executive Order #12858, creating a Presidential Council on ‘Sustainable Development.’ This effectively pushed the UN plan into America’s large, churning government machine without the need for any review or discussion by Congress or the American people.

[…]

The seeds for Agenda 21 were planted back in 1987 when the writings of Gro Harlem Brundtland (a woman who was first Vice-President of the Socialist International) caught the eye of the UN. Dr. Brundtland wrote a report for the UN called, ‘Our Common Future’ eventually got into the business of environmentalism as a tool to control all the people of the world and establish a global government. The growth of ICLEI [International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives] and the framework being put in place by supporters of Agenda 21 appear to be bringing Dr. Brundtland’s ideas closer to reality

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/alabama-takes-a-stand-against-soros-backed-agenda-21/#
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Information that George Dovel prepared for Helen Chenoweth’s testimony

COPY January 25, 1995

DELIVERED BY FACSIMILE

The Honorable Helen Chenoweth

First District Congressman from Idaho

1719 Longworth, House Office Bldg

Washington, D.C. 20515

Re: Thursday wolf/endangered species hearing:

Dear Helen:

Please use the following information during the committee hearing on wolf reintroduction on Thursday. The introduction of Canadian wolves into central Idaho was justified primarily from false information and flawed conclusions in the Wolf DEIS provided by IDF&G biologists. The erroneous information and conclusions were presented to the U.S. Congress by Wolf Recovery Team Leader Ed Bangs, despite the fact that he had received sufficient information to prove the data was inaccurate.

I have accumulated substantial evidence indicating that Idaho Department of Fish and Game Director Jerry Conley, IDF&G Wolf Recovery Team biologists Jerome Hansen and Jon Rachael, and Wolf Oversight Committee member Don Clower, knowingly and in defiance of I.C. Sec. 36-715 (1993) and Idaho House Joint Memorial No. 6 (1991), did either provide, or permit other F&G employees to provide and fail to correct, erroneous or false information to the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service for inclusion in the Wolf DEIS.

This false information minimized the estimated adverse impact of wolves on ungulate populations, hunter harvest, domestic livestock, pets, land use, and economics, thereby supporting rather than discouraging the introduction of wolves classified as endangered species into central Idaho.

The evidence also indicates that IDF&G Director Conley knowingly and willfully violated I.C. Sec. 36-715(2) by providing a written agreement or permit to the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service allowing them to release wolves in central Idaho, without first receiving express authorization from the Idaho Legislature.

The evidence shows that the erroneous information concerning ungulate populations and harvests was obtained from highly exaggerated deer and elk population and harvest estimates contained in Pittman-Robertson reports written by IDF&G biologists Lonn Kuck and Louis J. Nelson,which were funded in part with dedicated federal tax money (Pittman-Robertson excise tax on the purchase of arms and ammunition).

Rep. Helen Chenoweth, 1/25/95, Page 2

These exaggerated estimates were the basis for Mr. Conley’s claim in an October 12, 1993 letter to Wolf Team Leader Ed Bangs that , “a recovering wolf population will rarely cause unacceptable impacts to the overall ungulate population in Idaho,” and for Mr. Hansen’s and Mr.Rachael’s claim in the DEIS that the impact of wolf recovery on ungulate populations, hunter harvest, domestic livestock, pets, land use, and economics would be minimal (see DEIS pages 4-33 through 4-55).

IDF&G biologists Rachael and Hansen comprised only one-fourth of the eight member Gray Wolf Inter-agency EIS Team but they were responsible for all of the erroneous information and conclusions concerning the central Idaho portion of the EIS. This fact is verified in the DEIS (see Exhibit 1) and was also verified to me in person by Team Leader Ed Bangs on October 17, 1994 and by F&WS team member Dr. Steve Fritts a few days later.

But despite the fact that I have pointed out the errors several times to Mr. Bangs, both verbally and in writing (see Exhibit 2), he has failed to correct the misinformation he provided to the U.S. Congress (see page 42120 of the August 16, 1994 Federal Register). Although Mr. Bangs admitted verbally on October 17, 1994 that the F&G ungulate population estimates could be flawed, in an Idaho House Resources and Conservation Committee hearing on January 17, 1995 he testified, “There are several hundred thousand ungulates in the central Idaho recovery area” (emphasis added).

Realistic data indicates fewer than 40,000 total ungulates in the area. The grossly exaggerated deer and elk population estimates provided by IDF&G Staff Biologist Louis J. Nelson and Wildlife Game and Research Manager Lonn Kuck resulted from their use of a computer “big game sight-ability” model reportedly developed by IDF&G Research Biologist Jim Unsworth.

Using this model, they multiplied the number of ungulates actually counted by helicopter in the units with the highest population densities by nearly 300 percent, and projected similar populations in the 90 percent of recovery area units that weren’t counted.

The result was a projection averaging six times as many deer and elk per square mile in all of the wolf recovery area units as were actually counted per square mile in the historical highest deer and elk producing units in the recovery area (see Exhibit 1).

Similar highly exaggerated deer and elk harvest estimates by these two biologists resulted from use of the hunter telephone survey wherein more deer were reported harvested in Unit 33 than were actually counted by helicopter in Units 33, 34 and 35 during a highly accurate count in deep snow when the animals were concentrated on winter range (see Exhibit1).

On February 17, 1994 Garden Valley, Idaho resident Sandy Donley and I met with Wolf Oversight Committee member Don Clower and asked him if he realized that the prey population and harvest figures in the Wolf DEIS were highly exaggerated.

Mr. Clower Rep. Helen Chenoweth, 1/25/95, Page 3 responded, “We (indicating he and one or more other Committee members) knew they were inflated when they were provided to the Team.” Then I asked him if he knew that inflated ungulate prey population estimates in the DEIS would encourage wolf reintroduction instead of discouraging it. Mr. Clower responded that he knew this and saw nothing wrong with lying to the public so long as it meant accomplishing a specific goal. He elaborated on this view by stating that it was common practice in the Postal Service, where he was formerly employed, to lie to the public to achieve a desired result.

The evidence pointing to an IDF&G conspiracy to introduce wolves in defiance of the legislature’s mandates is substantial. Even the public wolf survey information provided by the Department to the DEIS was flawed in that it addressed only 809 primarily urban respondents’ answers to a single question about wolves in roadless wilderness areas (see Exhibit 3).

Note that Dr. Freemuth’s survey analysis, based on the limited response to the single wolf/wilderness question, also promotes the introduction and management of wolves in Idaho. That is hardly an unbiased analysis. The three exhibits I have enclosed are intended only to provide you with some confirmation of the exaggerated ungulate prey base for your use in the hearing Thursday.

Substantially more evidence has already been provided to Idaho Attorney General Alan Lance who has assigned DAG criminal investigator Russell Reneau to investigate what appears to be F&G conspiracy.

I’m sure you are already aware that Mr. Bangs made no effort to consult with local governments or Idaho citizens who will be affected by the wolf introduction. And although thousands of individual Idahoans, most county commissions and the Idaho Legislature requested the “No Wolf Alternative”, Mr. Bangs made no changes to his original recovery plan.

A belated “Thank You!” for winning the election, and good luck in getting the Endangered Species Act changed to protect our Constitutional rights.

Sincerely, (Orig. signed by G.D.) George Dovel, Chairman Boise County Wildlife & Endangered Species Comm. Encls – Exhibits 1-3 CLT – Kurt Christiansen
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chandie-Morse-Bartell/1623038291 Chandie Morse Bartell

Now we are talkin’ . . .

Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as well as Vermont’s own Constitution very carefully, and his strict interpretation of these documents is popping some eyeballs in New England and elsewhere.

Maslack recently proposed a bill to register “non-gun-owners” and require them to pay a $500 YEARLY fee to the state. Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun. Maslack read the “militia” phrase of the Second Amendment as not only the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but as ‘a clear mandate to do so’. He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a “monopoly of force” by the government as well as criminals. Vermont’s constitution states explicitly that “the people have a right to bear
arms for the defense of themselves and the State” and those persons who are “conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms” shall be required to “pay such equivalent..”
Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a constitutional obligation to arm themselves, so that they are capable of responding to “any situation that may arise.”

Open Thread – November 30, 2012

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