Are Hunters Becoming Nothing More Than “Shooters”?

Home > Are Hunters Becoming Nothing More Than “Shooters”?

I just read this really interesting essay on the Desert Rat blog.

In a nutshell, the author, Dr. Robert Brown, questions the technologicial and biological advances in hunting, and whether those advances are turning us into livestock shooters instead of hunters. Yeah, it sounds pretty incendiary when I put it that way, but if you read the essay you’ll find that it’s actually pretty well-balanced, and his points make pretty good sense. There’s a growing ethical question here, and it’s a question that I think is worth asking.

Here’s one of his key points:

My argument is that each hunter needs to individually draw our line in the sand as to what is an ethical hunt, and what is legitimate wild game. We need to consider if we are still in this for the beauty of nature and the thrill of the hunt, or are we compromising our ethics and our values for the sake of a big trophy head on the wall. Surveys have shown that most of the public approves of hunting, but only for harvesting the meat and controlling the wild population. The non-hunting public strongly disapproves of trophy hunting. What would the non-hunting public think if they understood where we were going with hunting “technology” and feeding and breeding our “wild game.”

He has a lot more to say in the essay, and I encourage you to follow the link over there, from above or from my blog roll, and read it for yourselves. I posted my initial comments there, and encourage you to do the same.

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Reply

Othmar Vohringer

Posted January 9, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Good post Phillip. A few weeks ago I wrote a column with the same topic. At times I worry too were it all will end with the advance in hunting from modern high-tech gadgets and breeding bigger bucks and the direction it takes.
Have we lost track of what hunting really is all about? What message will this send to new hunters and lastly what will the public at large make of it all.

-ov-
Reply

T.Michael Riddle

Posted January 10, 2008 at 4:33 AM

The Times, They are a Changin’ And we must change with it or die out like the Dinosaurs, Neanderthal Man and the Sabre Toothed Tiger.

Drawing Lines In The Sand?
Our lines have already been drawn for us! and It is called: The Department Of Fish and Game!

When the rules are followed by responsible, tax paying and ETHICAL hunters then we have an abundance of wild game including Trophy Quality Animals out in our National Forests and B.L.M. areas.

But, when our public land areas become “overpopulated” with too many MOUNTAIN LIONS, POACHERS and UNSCRUPULOUS HUNTERS then our wild game population and sportsmen, sportswomen and nature lovers alike, all suffer from the results of these variables going unchecked.

Shooters Instead Of Hunters?
You cannot even go to Africa anymore without experiencing the devastating effects of Poaching and Poorly managed government lands. The technology “had to improve” because of all the afore mentioned reasons.

Our optics had to improve in order to scan a larger area with lesser amounts of game. Without an improved rifle, bow etc. etc. we would have an even harder time harvesting what few game animals can be seen. And if you wound an animal (which becomes more likely with solid copper bullets) you will have a better chance at retrieving that animal with the new Infrared, Nightvision or Thermal Imaging Devices which are now available to the public.

A good tracking dog is a must also but the A.R.G.s have been slowly taking that privelege away from us State by State.

What else is left to sports people except, Good Private Land Management which also includes High Fenced Preserves as well.

I will take the new technology and new breed of hunter any day over the “status quo” which has been proven to be “unsucessful” for quite some time now.
Reply

NorCal Cazadora

Posted January 10, 2008 at 5:27 AM

Well, Phillip, the way you describe it really did make me cringe, but I’ll go check it out…
Reply

Arthur

Posted January 10, 2008 at 7:41 PM

I’m not sure how I feel about this issue. I can where the gentleman is coming from, but my initial thoughts do not tend to agree. I’m going to have to think about this one a little.
Reply

Phillip Loughlin

Posted January 11, 2008 at 11:28 AM

Arthur, take a minute and go read the whole thing at Desert Rat, and add a comment. Not much happening over there right now, and this is a pretty good topic for discussion.
Reply

T.Michael Riddle

Posted January 13, 2008 at 6:28 AM

Sorry to say it Phillip but there is even MORE, APATHY amongst sportspeople than I had believed possible.

Not one person has came by our booth to discuss forming any organization at all.

They will continue to use euphemisims such as “Harvest my animal” and that
wiping all the blood from the “Harvested animal” when taking pictures of it will not offend anybody with the sight of that blood.

And they will continue to believe that allowing the State to force “its” ideas of “Ethics” and “Philosophies” upon good,honest tax paying citizens, is a good thing. Until we have no more rights and priveledges left at all. (as another vegetarian” Adolph Hitler” once did)

The sportsmen who own Retriever Dogs and Baying Dogs will continue to believe that the BAN on sports dogs only will apply to Bear Hunters, Lion Hunters and Wild Boar Catch Dogs.

They will continue to believe that the Government has our best interest in mind when they allow “it” to make all of their decisions for them.

(nativehunt at g mail dot com) is available for anyone out there who will take the first step forward and fight.
It will be as though we are the 300 Spartans and the A.R.G.s are the Persians. But war has
already been declared and its either FIGHT or die a SLAVE in their utopian idea of what the world should be like.
Reply

suburban bushwacker

Posted January 13, 2008 at 7:21 AM

last night i gained permission from L. a non hunter, to hunt on his land in West Virginia (even though i’m still living in the uk). His (arable) land borders a forest owned by a hunting club, at dawn and dusk whitetails come out of the woods to eat his plantings, he likes watching them, doesn’t shoot or hunt himself but is happy for me to hunt there, for food IF i promise to use everything but the grunt.

Because i blog about the gap between being a city guy who buys meat and a country dweller who kills his own, i have this debate a lot. No amount of wiping up the blood or calling killing ‘harvesting’ is going to undo the damage to the perception of hunters by trophy hunting. On L’s last visit to his land he was led by the circling buzzards to a kill site where he found a young buck with one haunch removed and the rest of the animal left to rot.

” I understand that venison is the best meat we can eat, that it’s fed mankind since we started to live in groups, that it’s the perfect meat, that were designed to digest it. what i can’t stand is the way anyone would kill an animal and then leave most of it to rot, If your killing for food i’m fine with that, but if you aint eating every bit of it DONT KILL IT” L speaking last night.

We who would hunt and kill our own food have supporters in unexpected places and they will support us if we let them.
SBW
Reply

Desert Rat

Posted January 13, 2008 at 8:31 AM

“Not much happening over there right now”

Ouch!!

Thanks for stopping by the Rat’s Nest! I believe, as with any issue, over-simplifying it is dangerous. I also think that even if you don’t agree with Dr. Brown, a “reality check” now and then doesn’t hurt us. I fully agree that your Game and Fish Department sets one set of standards, that for the most part, are a good starting point. The problem is, not always is something that is legal also ethical, and vice versa. Remember too that while we don’t need to be apologists, non-hunters vote in legislators. Your Game and Fish Department operates at the behest of the State Government. Their mandate is always subject to change, as directed (more or less) by the populace.
Reply

NorCal Cazadora

Posted January 13, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Sparta! I like that! I want the helmet, too.

And Bushwhacker, I share your W.V. friend’s sentiment. I was out on a hunt today on a public refuge where there was evidence that some hunters had walked along the roads the day before shooting coots, which are widely considered inedible, and just LEAVING THEM THERE. We found around 10 of them – and the nearby spent shells. Hunters like that need to be strung up by their huevos, and fellow hunters need to be the ones to do it so the non-hunting public understands that we find that repugnant.

And you’re right that we have supporters in unexpected places. The foodie community is a huge potential partner of the hunting community.
Reply

T.Michael Riddle

Posted January 14, 2008 at 5:07 AM

NorCal and Bushwacker,
Please report these incidents to the proper authorities, It is Illegal in “All” states to wantonly waste a game animals meat like that.

Take action and follow through with that action.
Reply

NorCal Cazadora

Posted January 14, 2008 at 7:46 AM

Oh, I reported it on the way out of the refuge! And if I’d seen those @$$holes while they doing the shooting, I’d've called a game warden from my blind. That just infuriates me.

I also plan to use this incident in a letter to my lawmakers to talk about why we need more game wardens. Our proposed state budget calls for cutting them.
Reply

T.Michael Riddle

Posted January 14, 2008 at 8:28 AM

This news from NorCal realy saddens me, We do not have enough wardens as it is, and it only opens the doors for MORE A.R.G.s to join up with the Department Of Fish And Game and politicaly initiate change towards their agenda.

This is why licensed and responsible hunters are watching their hunting priveledges being trampled and taken away.

The realy sad part about all this is that if they had taken the mud hens home and boiled them up they could have fed the meat to their cats or dogs!
Good nutrition for them and they do not complain about the taste.

Just too much work for these scums I guess!
Reply

Phillip Loughlin

Posted January 14, 2008 at 8:34 AM

Not too awful much to add here, besides a big thank you for your participation in a great discussion.

I do want to suggest, though, that when we’re talking to non-hunters… or even to some misinformed hunting compatriots… “trophy hunting” is a term that is often misused and even more often misunderstood (just like “canned hunting” or “high fence”).

The stereotype, of course, would be someone who’s hunting ONLY for the antlers, teeth, etc. and doesn’t care about utilizing the rest of the animal. These are the people we often hear about who go out and shoot a great animal, only to take the head.

The fact is, though, that the majority of trophy hunters (all of the trophy hunters I know personally) utilize the whole animal just like any of the rest of us. They just put a different value on the experience, and are unwilling to “settle” for a “lesser” animal. That’s a personal value-set, and not to be discounted.

Most of the folks who consider themselves “trophy hunters” differ from the rest of us only in that resolve to take “quality” animals. They exhibit what I consider an admirable restraint in the field. They also, by necessity, tend to hone the finer skills of woodscraft in order to consistently take the most mature and well-developed animals of any species.

As a community, it should be at least a part of our job to help differentiate between these types of “trophy hunting”, just as we differentiate hunters from poachers and thrill-killers.
Reply

NorCal Cazadora

Posted January 14, 2008 at 8:40 AM

Great point, Phillip. That was exactly my impression before I learned about hunting a couple years ago – that there were people who just hunted for the head. There’s so much educating to do!
Reply

Phillip Loughlin

Posted January 14, 2008 at 9:20 AM

“Not much happening over there right now”

Ouch!!

Hey Rat… sorry, didn’t realize how that came across. I only meant that there wasn’t a lot of feedback happening on your post… a post which should have elicited a lot of response given what Dr. Brown is saying there.

I can definitely appreciate the point that we SHOULD stop and take a look at what we’re doing and how it’s perceived by the public, then make sure we address that perception. I’ve said it often, both on this blog and in other places, that if we discount the opinions of the non-hunting public, our sport is doomed to an ugly death. Those people vote, and there are far more of them than there are of us.

The trick is in finding a balance, because we also know that not only do non-hunters know very little about our sport… they generally don’t WANT to know. Educating them becomes a little trickier, because we end up doing damage control when something happens, rather than constructive public relations when nothing is happening at all.
Reply

T.Michael Riddle

Posted January 17, 2008 at 12:29 AM

Hi Phillip and all,
Its rather ironic that the conversation leaned towards Trophy Hunting!

We just recently had a client from upstate Washington who “after” signing our contract which clearly describes our trophy fees and “after” killing a monster 450lb. Boar, says to us, “I only want the head and you guys can keep the meat”!

We also encountered another individual about 5 years ago from Florida who “after” his two young sons had killed a nice meat hog. One each. The man said to us, “You guys can do whatever you want with the animals, I just wanted my boys to experience the kill before I bring them to Africa to take five Trophy Animals home”!

These type of individuals are the very ones of which we all are speaking whom the media will focus upon just to garner the latest headlines. And so that they may sell more papers they will focus upon the “negative” of the minority. Just the same as the “Pitbull” headlines will surely sell lots of airspace as well.

By the way, those two repugnant individuals which I mentioned earlier? I told them that if they abandoned their meat that I would file charges against them for “Wanton Waste”
Reply

NorCal Cazadora

Posted January 17, 2008 at 7:34 AM

Good for you, TMR! Acts of callousness, arrogance and greed make all of us look bad. I just wonder if those guys ever figured out what was wrong with what they were doing?

This is why it’s important for ethical hunters to stand up and tell the public that we are what hunting is about, not the badly behaved outliers.

Are Hunters Becoming Nothing More Than “Shooters”?

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