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	<title>Comments on: What To Do About Bad Behavior On Outdoor TV</title>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4618</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4618</guid>
		<description>Phillip, if it works I&#039;m all for it.  If I had cable, I wouldn&#039;t watch it until it changed... voting with my feet (or eyeballs), of course.

Your Wife Swap example was hilarious.  I&#039;m hoping the Bachelorette will create the groundswell to ban collagen implants...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip, if it works I&#8217;m all for it.  If I had cable, I wouldn&#8217;t watch it until it changed&#8230; voting with my feet (or eyeballs), of course.</p>
<p>Your Wife Swap example was hilarious.  I&#8217;m hoping the Bachelorette will create the groundswell to ban collagen implants&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Loughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4617</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Loughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4617</guid>
		<description>But Josh, the options are to do nothing but grump about it and face the bigger consequences of the industry failing to get its act together...  or try to do something, even if it offers a slim likelihood of success.  

The big difference between hunting TV and the &quot;reality&quot; shows is in the impact that the negative images create.  Wife Swap is probably not going to provide much political impetus to, say, ban marriage.  

In cleaning up the hunting programming, I&#039;m not even suggesting that they get out and do more DIY, public land hunts or anything like that (although the hunters on the better programs are skilled and dedicated, and they very often bring in great footage and a high success rate).  I&#039;m only saying that closer attention must be paid to unethical situations, both real and perceived.  

I absolutely expect most of them to continue to follow the porno formula, because viewers DO want to see action, most of the time.  There&#039;s a reason you see such a predominance of turkey, pheasant, and waterfowl hunts... there&#039;s a lot of action. I don&#039;t have a problem with that, even knowing that many of these filmed hunts take place on fenced preserves.  

The only reason I have any hope at all that a viewer-based response can make a change in the industry is because it started to happen already.  Like I mentioned previously, the Outdoor Channel had a contract that required producers to meet certain ethical guidelines in order to be featured on the network&#039;s new HD channel.  They did this because of the feedback from viewers who were tired of the same kinds of things I&#039;m talking about now... unethical shots, poorly disguised fenced hunts, and worse.  

I don&#039;t know what happened with that in the long run, but I do know that the initiative took place at the peak of the outdoor programming boom (about three or four years ago), and before the economic situation got so tight.  There are now fewer networks competing for the best programs, which means there&#039;s probably a little more leniency.  

The bright side is that the vast majority of hunting programs I&#039;ve seen do pay close attention to things like ethics, safety, and conservation.  There&#039;s really not that much clean-up necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Josh, the options are to do nothing but grump about it and face the bigger consequences of the industry failing to get its act together&#8230;  or try to do something, even if it offers a slim likelihood of success.  </p>
<p>The big difference between hunting TV and the &#8220;reality&#8221; shows is in the impact that the negative images create.  Wife Swap is probably not going to provide much political impetus to, say, ban marriage.  </p>
<p>In cleaning up the hunting programming, I&#8217;m not even suggesting that they get out and do more DIY, public land hunts or anything like that (although the hunters on the better programs are skilled and dedicated, and they very often bring in great footage and a high success rate).  I&#8217;m only saying that closer attention must be paid to unethical situations, both real and perceived.  </p>
<p>I absolutely expect most of them to continue to follow the porno formula, because viewers DO want to see action, most of the time.  There&#8217;s a reason you see such a predominance of turkey, pheasant, and waterfowl hunts&#8230; there&#8217;s a lot of action. I don&#8217;t have a problem with that, even knowing that many of these filmed hunts take place on fenced preserves.  </p>
<p>The only reason I have any hope at all that a viewer-based response can make a change in the industry is because it started to happen already.  Like I mentioned previously, the Outdoor Channel had a contract that required producers to meet certain ethical guidelines in order to be featured on the network&#8217;s new HD channel.  They did this because of the feedback from viewers who were tired of the same kinds of things I&#8217;m talking about now&#8230; unethical shots, poorly disguised fenced hunts, and worse.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what happened with that in the long run, but I do know that the initiative took place at the peak of the outdoor programming boom (about three or four years ago), and before the economic situation got so tight.  There are now fewer networks competing for the best programs, which means there&#8217;s probably a little more leniency.  </p>
<p>The bright side is that the vast majority of hunting programs I&#8217;ve seen do pay close attention to things like ethics, safety, and conservation.  There&#8217;s really not that much clean-up necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4616</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4616</guid>
		<description>Phillip, if there were built-in incentives for long-term strategic thinking of the sort you mention, instead of the short-term gains inherent in our current economic structure for corporate enterprises, I&#039;d be much more optimistic than you about self-policing.  Sadly, even if most were to want to self-police, they often cannot, due to market constraints.  

At the very basest level, for example:  How many times are you willing to watch a show where nobody gets a shot at anything?  Seeing as you are willing to take me hunting, I&#039;d guess you probably have thicker skin about that sort of thing, but most of those eyeballs the channels are hoping to get actually want to see animals being shot.  

It&#039;s akin to &quot;reality&quot; TV.  They aren&#039;t really reality (we used to call them game shows), because nobody wants to watch a show of somebody going to their job at Burger King for eight hours a day, and then going home and watching TV.  It&#039;s the same for hunters, I think:  They don&#039;t want to watch a show where some dude goes out and comes back with nothin&#039; most times, just like them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip, if there were built-in incentives for long-term strategic thinking of the sort you mention, instead of the short-term gains inherent in our current economic structure for corporate enterprises, I&#8217;d be much more optimistic than you about self-policing.  Sadly, even if most were to want to self-police, they often cannot, due to market constraints.  </p>
<p>At the very basest level, for example:  How many times are you willing to watch a show where nobody gets a shot at anything?  Seeing as you are willing to take me hunting, I&#8217;d guess you probably have thicker skin about that sort of thing, but most of those eyeballs the channels are hoping to get actually want to see animals being shot.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s akin to &#8220;reality&#8221; TV.  They aren&#8217;t really reality (we used to call them game shows), because nobody wants to watch a show of somebody going to their job at Burger King for eight hours a day, and then going home and watching TV.  It&#8217;s the same for hunters, I think:  They don&#8217;t want to watch a show where some dude goes out and comes back with nothin&#8217; most times, just like them.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Loughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4615</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Loughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4615</guid>
		<description>Thanks fellas.

As I wrote this, I realized that I know a lot of folks who aren&#039;t regular viewers of the hunting programs.  Personally, I can&#039;t resist the vicarious thrill I get, especially when real life (work and family) keep me from getting into the woods as much as I used to.  

Josh, I recognize the drive for profits, but self-destructive behavior is not a sound, long-term business model.  There&#039;s already a demonstrated distaste for the hunting programs by many serious hunters.  Add that to the efforts of antis to leverage any bad example against the sport, and it simply makes good business sense for the industry to police itself a little better (although by and large, they&#039;ve eliminated a lot of the most egregious content).  

Bill, I used to be a die-hard offshore fisherman before moving to California.  Between the insane regulations and big, rough, cold ocean, I haven&#039;t had the motivation to continue the sport here.  Even so, I never could stand to watch the televised fishing... something I find closely akin to watching televised golf.  

As far as the game-infested locales, etc... I&#039;ve got to say that several programs are actually getting more involved in do-it-yourself hunts on public lands.  They&#039;re turning in some pretty good content, too.  While most of the programs still follow the pornography model (right down to the cheesy music), the better shows are actually turning in more of a storyline.  One can hope...

Ian, YouTube is one of the worst perpetrators of showing unethical, dangerous, and flat-out illegal hunting content.  Unfortunately, there&#039;s very little that we, as consumers, can do about what appears on that venue.  Because so much of it is amateur and unsponsored, there&#039;s really very little accountability and no source of compulsion to get them to clean it up.  The thing is, there&#039;s some really cool stuff on there too... so I get a little conflicted.  Just have to sort through to get the stuff I want to see.

The industry, on the other hand, IS driven by sponsors and advertisers.  This gives us, the consumers, a little bit of leverage... sometimes too much (recalling the Jim Zumbo black rifle fiasco).  

By the way, I think you nailed it on the similarity of hunting vids and surfing video.  While I generally avoid most televised sports, hunting and surfing footage can almost always make me stop in my tracks.  I&#039;ll check out that magazine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks fellas.</p>
<p>As I wrote this, I realized that I know a lot of folks who aren&#8217;t regular viewers of the hunting programs.  Personally, I can&#8217;t resist the vicarious thrill I get, especially when real life (work and family) keep me from getting into the woods as much as I used to.  </p>
<p>Josh, I recognize the drive for profits, but self-destructive behavior is not a sound, long-term business model.  There&#8217;s already a demonstrated distaste for the hunting programs by many serious hunters.  Add that to the efforts of antis to leverage any bad example against the sport, and it simply makes good business sense for the industry to police itself a little better (although by and large, they&#8217;ve eliminated a lot of the most egregious content).  </p>
<p>Bill, I used to be a die-hard offshore fisherman before moving to California.  Between the insane regulations and big, rough, cold ocean, I haven&#8217;t had the motivation to continue the sport here.  Even so, I never could stand to watch the televised fishing&#8230; something I find closely akin to watching televised golf.  </p>
<p>As far as the game-infested locales, etc&#8230; I&#8217;ve got to say that several programs are actually getting more involved in do-it-yourself hunts on public lands.  They&#8217;re turning in some pretty good content, too.  While most of the programs still follow the pornography model (right down to the cheesy music), the better shows are actually turning in more of a storyline.  One can hope&#8230;</p>
<p>Ian, YouTube is one of the worst perpetrators of showing unethical, dangerous, and flat-out illegal hunting content.  Unfortunately, there&#8217;s very little that we, as consumers, can do about what appears on that venue.  Because so much of it is amateur and unsponsored, there&#8217;s really very little accountability and no source of compulsion to get them to clean it up.  The thing is, there&#8217;s some really cool stuff on there too&#8230; so I get a little conflicted.  Just have to sort through to get the stuff I want to see.</p>
<p>The industry, on the other hand, IS driven by sponsors and advertisers.  This gives us, the consumers, a little bit of leverage&#8230; sometimes too much (recalling the Jim Zumbo black rifle fiasco).  </p>
<p>By the way, I think you nailed it on the similarity of hunting vids and surfing video.  While I generally avoid most televised sports, hunting and surfing footage can almost always make me stop in my tracks.  I&#8217;ll check out that magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4614</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4614</guid>
		<description>In today&#039;s standards there is no such thing as ethics it seems on TV anymore, and that goes for some hunting shows as well. Taking hail mary shots like you mentioned due little but attract the attention of wannabe sharp shooters and makes the hunting season more dangerouse as they think it will get them a high reputation and awesome camp fire story. 

The tradition of hunting is hurting as it is, don&#039;t need a bunch of people on TV making it worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today&#8217;s standards there is no such thing as ethics it seems on TV anymore, and that goes for some hunting shows as well. Taking hail mary shots like you mentioned due little but attract the attention of wannabe sharp shooters and makes the hunting season more dangerouse as they think it will get them a high reputation and awesome camp fire story. </p>
<p>The tradition of hunting is hurting as it is, don&#8217;t need a bunch of people on TV making it worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4613</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4613</guid>
		<description>Interesting post Philip! Like Joshua above, I don&#039;t want much TV, but do admit to looking at a lot of hunting/kill shot videos on YouTube (often pretty gnarly). If I had cable I&#039;d probably watch the hunting shows. I also watch a lot of surfing videos and there are a bunch of similarities. Hunters and surfers spend TONS of time/effort/money getting into position to have an amazing experience -- getting barreled, getting the animal you&#039;ve wanted. The actual experience is so fast and fleeting. Watching that exact moment is powerful stuff -- irresistible really, because you know you&#039;re not likely to be in that position and you want to so badly! Hunters are going to watch those shows because they can&#039;t not watch. Would be cool if they were produced in the way you suggest. There&#039;s a great surfing magazine called The Surfer&#039;s Journal that&#039;s like the &#039;thinking surfer&#039;s&#039; mag. It takes a really cool approach to documenting the whole sport of surfing. You should check it out http://www.surfersjournal.com/  I wish there was an equivalent publication for hunting! Is there? For now I&#039;ll read your blog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post Philip! Like Joshua above, I don&#8217;t want much TV, but do admit to looking at a lot of hunting/kill shot videos on YouTube (often pretty gnarly). If I had cable I&#8217;d probably watch the hunting shows. I also watch a lot of surfing videos and there are a bunch of similarities. Hunters and surfers spend TONS of time/effort/money getting into position to have an amazing experience &#8212; getting barreled, getting the animal you&#8217;ve wanted. The actual experience is so fast and fleeting. Watching that exact moment is powerful stuff &#8212; irresistible really, because you know you&#8217;re not likely to be in that position and you want to so badly! Hunters are going to watch those shows because they can&#8217;t not watch. Would be cool if they were produced in the way you suggest. There&#8217;s a great surfing magazine called The Surfer&#8217;s Journal that&#8217;s like the &#8216;thinking surfer&#8217;s&#8217; mag. It takes a really cool approach to documenting the whole sport of surfing. You should check it out <a href="http://www.surfersjournal.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.surfersjournal.com/</a>  I wish there was an equivalent publication for hunting! Is there? For now I&#8217;ll read your blog</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Koury</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4612</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Koury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4612</guid>
		<description>Add VERSUS as a cable channel that carries hunting and fishing shows.

Sorry, I can&#039;t join in on the feedback to hunting shows. That would require I watch them. I&#039;ve watched a few fishing shows and none really held much interest for me. It&#039;s not as though I was there doing that - just watching someone else. I fish a lot, both shoreline and boat, saltwater, streams, and ponds, but watching - nada.

Same with hunting shows. I watch one now and then, but they&#039;ve also never held my interest long. The excitement of being in the woods or fields, or making contact with game just doesn&#039;t come through for me. They take place in game infested locales and mostly don&#039;t reflect what the majority of hunters experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add VERSUS as a cable channel that carries hunting and fishing shows.</p>
<p>Sorry, I can&#8217;t join in on the feedback to hunting shows. That would require I watch them. I&#8217;ve watched a few fishing shows and none really held much interest for me. It&#8217;s not as though I was there doing that &#8211; just watching someone else. I fish a lot, both shoreline and boat, saltwater, streams, and ponds, but watching &#8211; nada.</p>
<p>Same with hunting shows. I watch one now and then, but they&#8217;ve also never held my interest long. The excitement of being in the woods or fields, or making contact with game just doesn&#8217;t come through for me. They take place in game infested locales and mostly don&#8217;t reflect what the majority of hunters experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2010/07/21/what-to-do-about-bad-behavior-on-outdoor-tv/#comment-4611</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/?p=2184#comment-4611</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t watch them.  I tried, but I learned nothing from them that I would have/should have learned better by actually being in the field with an experienced hunter.  It&#039;s not to say that, as a hunter, I don&#039;t have a visceral desire to watch these shows.  It&#039;s just that I&#039;m trying to grow out of mere visceral desires; I&#039;m trying to be a man.

Television caters to the basest instincts, and can therefore not be expected to support civil, adult behavior.  Instead, (esp. in beer commercials), T.V. just keeps tweaking our animal spirits.  It works well enough for profit.

If I want to learn something or experience the thrill of the hunt, I&#039;ll go hunt with you or Holly or Hank.  That is, if you&#039;ll suffer my jinx occasionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t watch them.  I tried, but I learned nothing from them that I would have/should have learned better by actually being in the field with an experienced hunter.  It&#8217;s not to say that, as a hunter, I don&#8217;t have a visceral desire to watch these shows.  It&#8217;s just that I&#8217;m trying to grow out of mere visceral desires; I&#8217;m trying to be a man.</p>
<p>Television caters to the basest instincts, and can therefore not be expected to support civil, adult behavior.  Instead, (esp. in beer commercials), T.V. just keeps tweaking our animal spirits.  It works well enough for profit.</p>
<p>If I want to learn something or experience the thrill of the hunt, I&#8217;ll go hunt with you or Holly or Hank.  That is, if you&#8217;ll suffer my jinx occasionally.</p>
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